What happens to other countries on Earth?

[Shawnster]

Straight from the transcripts.

I didn't say otherwise. I said you're taking the comment out of context of the episode. You can pull a single line out and make it appear to support your viewpoint but the body of the episode does not support your point of view.

There's no mention of what you claim.There's no evidence of that the Kes are a nation.

These are the specific lines straight from the transcript that only make sense by having Kes refer to the people as a whole government rather than simply the species.

For sake of argument, let's substitute "Egyptian" for Kes
CRUSHER: First of all, the Kes are not half the planet, they're nearly three quarters of it. And the Prytt are not being left out. They themselves simply don't want to have contact with anyone from the outside. not the Federation or anyone else.
The Kes are 3/4 of the planet. Is that population or territory they control? If we say "The Egyptians are 3/4 of the planet" we could be referring to the culture, but it makes more sense to refer to the political nation or body. Who cares what the culture is?

CRUSHER: By all indications, the Kes are a very unified, very progressive people.
Unified in what way? Culturally? Religiously? Politically? Nationalistically? The only ones that matter to Picard in this situation would be political and/or nationalistic. Unified government.

LORIN: We're not fools. We are aware of the Federation attempt to establish a military alliance with the Kes. It will not be tolerated.
What are military alliances established with? The government. They definitely aren't established with individuals or cultures. The United States has a major non-NATO alliance with Egypt. Not the culture, not the people, the nation. Egyptians living in the United States or anywhere in the world for that matter are not allies to the United States (nor are they enemies). The Egyptian government is the ally.

CRUSHER: An escape route. That guard must be working for the Kes.
Now, it's possible the guard could be working for someone of the Kes culture or race or whatever you want Kes to refer to, but in context of the episode the guard is working for a political entity referred to as Kes.

RIKER: That's very kind, Ambassador. But I don't think anyone here holds you or the Kes government responsible for what's happened.
Self explanatory

MAURIC: Well, they should be en route to the Kes border. Our operative provided them with a detailed map and instructions on where to go.
MAURIC: That's a crude, but accurate term. These friends will be waiting for your Captain and Doctor when they reach the village of Ohn Kor near the Kes border. The map we provided your officers will take them to a tavern there.
MAURIC: The danger is minimal. Our operatives control almost the whole village. Once contact has been made with Captain Picard and Doctor Crusher, our friends will escort them across the border into Kes
Kes border. Geopolitical boundary. Kes refers to the government. Especially the last line "into Kes."

LORIN: I am not authorised to talk with a Kes official.
Government official. "I am not authorized to talk with an Egyptian official." The only reason to specify "Egyptian" would be to identify the government involved. If we were talking a business the line would be "Exxon official."

TROOPER: Minister, we have the human female. The male is standing in Kes territory.
Territory. Geopolitical.

It's clear that Kes refers to the government as a whole and the people that make up said government. The same way we use Egyptian to refer to both the people and the government. Beverly's comment in context is referring to a people belonging to a specific government.

 

[Tenacity]

These are the specific lines straight from the transcript that only make sense by having Kes refer to the people as a whole government rather than simply the species.

I'm willing to agree that the Kes are not a species.

From the episode we have no way of knowing what they call their species.

said you're taking the comment out of context of the episode.

And just to be clear, we're both still referring to Beverly's comment at the breakfast meeting?

You can pull a single line out and make it appear to support your viewpoint but the body of the episode does not support your point of view.

No again, Beverly's comment at the breakfast meeting are in context for what she intended to say, Picard says the planet isn't unified and Beverly responds than three quarter of the people on the planet are unified.

She is clearly referring to the Kes people and not a Kes government in that comment, at that time.

It's difficult to see how she is saying anything else, now you can put forward that what Beverly says is in error (I have no reason to believe such), but it was what she meant to say at the time.

And while we at it, what Picard says at the breakfast meeting is true as well, the planet isn't unified.

For sake of argument, let's substitute "Egyptian" for Kes

Oh, at this point let's just not.

It's clear that Kes refers to the government as a whole and the people that make up said government.

In Beverly's comment at the breakfast meeting?

No, that wasn't how Beverly was using the term "the Kes people."
She clearly was referring to a group of people.

 

[Shawnster]

[QUOTE="Tenacity, post: 11871242, member: 72511"And just to be clear, we're both still referring to Beverly's comment at the breakfast meeting?[/QUOTE]

Yes, we were both referring to the same line. It's clear that we're in a circular argument, so i'll take my leave. We obviously disagree as to the context of the episode as a whole.

 

[robau]

I'm going to stop trying to understand what the discussion about Picard's accent is supposed to be about. I'll just say this: If a Frenchman speaks with a British accent, the only meaning that has is that he learned English very, very well. You're supposed to get the accent right. When you are taught French, I know, they hammer it into you that you must learn the accent. It's part of the language. So Picard just mastered English. No further significance than that.

For all we know he's actually speaking French and everyone has their universal translators on.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I just assume Picard is very well educated and speaks RP English (with the very occasional hint of a Yorkshire dialect, which he could have picked up by accident). In the real world, the actress Eva Green is French (the family name is actually of Swedish origin) and she speaks perfect RP English.

 

[Nyotarules]

I just assume Picard is very well educated and speaks RP English (with the very occasional hint of a Yorkshire dialect, which he could have picked up by accident). In the real world, the actress Eva Green is French (the family name is actually of Swedish origin) and she speaks perfect RP English.

She speaks with a non English accent in Casino Royale

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

She speaks with a non English accent in Casino Royale

That isn't the only role she has played and I didn't claim that her English accent has always been perfect. My reference point would be the more recent Penny Dreadful.

 

[Sci]

In Federation Socialist Paradise, all things are free. Credits are for dealing with unlightened Capitalist societies.

Pedantic side-note: Socialism is not about everything being free. It is a family of political/economic ideologies arguing for communal ownership of the means of production.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Pedantic side-note: Socialism is not about everything being free. It is a family of political/economic ideologies arguing for communal ownership of the means of production.

Not about to go up against you in Political Science.

 

[Queen Mab]

At the beginning of one episode, Picard referred to Riker (from Alaska) and a historical figure from Ohio as "countrymen." So the United States still exists in the 24th century and includes both of those states.

an area or region with regard to its physical features.
"a tract of wild country"
synonyms: terrain, land, territory, parts;
landscape, scenery, setting, surroundings, environment
"they travelled through thickly forested country"

• a region associated with a particular person, work, or television programme.
  "an old mansion in Stevenson's ‘Kidnapped’ country"

Ohio and Alaska are on the same continent.

 

[Kevman7987]

Ohio and Alaska are on the same continent.

But unless nation-states still exist in some form or Canada became part of the US before nation-states were abolished, why would Picard use the term "countryman?"

 

[Ithekro]

The same reason he's considered a Frenchman?

 

[Queen Mab]

But unless nation-states still exist in some form or Canada became part of the US before nation-states were abolished, why would Picard use the term "countryman?"

Ok. I thought I was being pretty clear.

A definition of country is simply refers to an area of land. And doesn't refer to nation-states.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ok. I thought I was being pretty clear.

A definition of country is simply refers to an area of land. And doesn't refer to nation-states.

But countryman refers to people from the same country/nation or someone from a rural region.

 

[Tenacity]

While not formal language, country and nation/state are interchangable in everyday speech.

 

[Lance]

I think she's still on the Canadian money too.

She's on Australian money too, but on the lowest denomination note only. She does get to appear on all of the coins, though.

 

[woodstock]

There's no reason to think that borders and governments on earth would really be all that different. A United Earth government can't run everything. You would still need regional and local governments for administrative purposes. Even post-WWIII, it would be easier to keep or go back to prior governments. The USA (with Mississippi, California, etc.), Great Britain (with NI, England, Wales), China (with its various provinces), etc with just a surrendering of sovereignty at the national level. I think it's just a little hard to wrap our heads around the idea of the President or Prime Minister having the authority of a governor underneath a President of United Earth.

As far as cultural differences, there are still different languages, skin colors, diets, etc with no more animosity than the friendly rivalry of local sports teams.

 

[Nyotarules]

And under a United Earth would there be an 'open immigration' policy, I doubt a 22nd century USA, GB and Australia would sign up to that considering their histories. If there is free movement of labour etc for this to work, the standard of living in each nation state/region would have to be very similar or else everyone will be heading for New York! (assuming the USA is still the richest region on the planet, it might not be in the Star Trek universe, its glory days might be over - see History of Great Britain for a real life example).

 

[Ithekro]

Considering the state of the planet after World War III, I doubt there is much difference anymore. Plus once there are confirmed aliens of other species known to exist, the idea of humans from other parts of the planet coming to take our jobs becomes less of an issue when there are literally billions of Vulcans and other that could do it instead for no money. You entire planet just became a barely warp capable world, so you are at least viable for other planets to talk to, but you are still backwater trash to the half dozen species that could call you a neighbor.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It is a family of political/economic ideologies arguing for communal ownership of the means of production.

No, it was Wolverhampton Wanderers, who beat Leicester 3-1.