When you stated the only ones who would be "moved" by Kes' return were her fans and how the ep. was made for them, which I also don't believe is true.
What happened after Voyager returned home?
- Thread starter JanewayRulz!
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Then please tell me why they made that episode in which their intentional purpose was to kill off the character after portraying her as an evil maniac and why the writing and making of that episode happened to coincide with a letter campaign to have the character re-instated as a main character of the show again?
I mean, they must have realized that the fans of the character would dislike how the character was portrayed in that episode, unless they were total idiots (which I don't think they were). Did they really imagine that the fans of the character would like the episode? I don't think so.
I'm going to step in the middle of this argument for just a second to stick up for the Borg kids. 
For the record, I would have been sad if they'd killed them off. I was sad when the three youngest ones left. (Well, I was sad about Mezoti, anyway. I liked her; she had spunk.)
That's all. Now you know. Someone would have complained. And it would have been me. You can go back to arguing now.
For the record, I would have been sad if they'd killed them off. I was sad when the three youngest ones left. (Well, I was sad about Mezoti, anyway. I liked her; she had spunk.) That's all. Now you know. Someone would have complained. And it would have been me. You can go back to arguing now.
Withers
Captain
The converse is that they made it for people who didn't like or were completely indifferent to Kes. If that's the case then they wasted an episode. The people who didn't like her were satisfied with just seeing her leave the show. They people who were indifferent were just subject to a crap episode about a character they had no particular feelings about one way or the other (I fall into this category.)
But I don't think either of those scenarios were the case. I think they made this episode knowing who it would impact and they just executed it terribly. It was a bad idea made worse by horrible execution. The only redeeming quality was Jennifer Lien's acting.
-Withers-
I already did in this very thread.
Answer my question, if this ep. was written to spit in the face of Kes fans, why would Jen Lien agree to do it?
Lein was let go after season 3, Kes fans wrote letters for 3 years to get her back?
If it was personal, maybe it's because writing letters for three years after repeatly telling fans "no, we dont want Kes in the cast anymore." drove them crazy and they did it to make them stop?
...but that's just doubtful speculation. However, I can imagine how irritating letter after letter for some of Trek's more obsessed fans can be most likely be.
Did you ever consider that the reason why Jen Lien left peacefully after getting fired is because she just didn't wanna play Kes anymore either? Lien herself always said it wasn't an issue for her. Ever consider that she does act anymore is because after doing it professionally, that she just didn't like it?
Do Kes fans ever consider what the actor wants?
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I know that & you know that but there's still: "TPTB are up to sinister things to insult..." that keeps rearing up it's ugly head.
I'm going to step in the middle of this argument for just a second to stick up for the Borg kids.
I really liked Mezoti and Icheb. The twins I could do without. I know lots of people feel that kids don't belong in Trek (Wesley made sure of that), but I enjoyed them, and felt there was a definite place for them when they were well written for. I also liked Naomi Wildman.
Maybe she agreed to do it because of being paid for it. Anyway, she did at least prevent the killing off of the character which was the initial intent of the "benefactors".
As for those in charge, if they did ruin the character because they were tired of letters about having Kes re-instated as a main character, then they did deliberately spit in the face of the fans. I know that that theory is questioned by some posters but I see no other reason to bring back a character which they had tried to make everyone forget for two yerars-just to destroy the character and kill her off. Kes wasn't Seska, Kes was supposed to be a main character and a very likeable one as well.
As for the comment about "Lien wanted to leave", if Lien had left of her own free will because of being tired of playing Kes, then she would have stated that in public and those in charge would have stated that over and over again everytime that issue was brought up. They never did.
They came up with some lame excuses which indicated that Lien might have left of her own free will. But when fans started to question that, they changed their explanations to lame comments about "we couldn't write for the character" or something similar.
As I see it, their explanations looks like they were caught with their fingers in the jar and are trying to come up with something like "Oh dear, I have no idea why the goodies ended up in my hands."
When it comes to what actors want, Lien has never stated that she didn't want to play Kes anymore.
As for actors, they are paid to play certain characters. As for the fans, it's us who actually pay their wages by supporting a certain show.
Actually, that all sounds to me like specifically avoiding saying that she wanted to leave.
And here's why I think they might do that:
Part of the deal when you sign up to be on Star Trek is you get to do conventions. It may not be explicitly spelled out, but it is there. Even guest stars get invited (and paid) to go to conventions, but anyone who was a regular cast member can basically get paid on any weekend they'd like to go talk to fans about their experience.
The producers don't get the same deal. Sure, they often get to talk at conventions, but often they are the focus of the fans' anger, rather than their love.
Part of the job of being the producer is taking the blame for everything that goes wrong. And part of that is taking the blame for someone leaving the show.
If the actor in question chooses to "out" themselves ("I just wasn't happy in the role anymore." or "I was offered a bigger part on another show and, after talking with the writers it was clear my character wasn't going anywhere important in the next season."), then the producers are free to confirm that. But, ... the absolute last thing the producers want is accusations that they tried to turn the fans against an actor by blaming the actor for the character leaving the show. Especially if the character has a large devoted following.
I don't really have an opinion on why Jennifer Lein left Voyager, or rather my opinion is that I don't know. Maybe she wanted more money, maybe she thought Seven of Nine joining the show would reduce her part to nearly non-existent, maybe the writers were sick of the character, maybe the producers were sick of the actress. The people who know the true story may be contractually bound to keep the details to themselves, or they may simply prefer to, but either way they aren't telling, and so all we have is guesswork.
And here's why I think they might do that:
Part of the deal when you sign up to be on Star Trek is you get to do conventions. It may not be explicitly spelled out, but it is there. Even guest stars get invited (and paid) to go to conventions, but anyone who was a regular cast member can basically get paid on any weekend they'd like to go talk to fans about their experience.
The producers don't get the same deal. Sure, they often get to talk at conventions, but often they are the focus of the fans' anger, rather than their love.
Part of the job of being the producer is taking the blame for everything that goes wrong. And part of that is taking the blame for someone leaving the show.
If the actor in question chooses to "out" themselves ("I just wasn't happy in the role anymore." or "I was offered a bigger part on another show and, after talking with the writers it was clear my character wasn't going anywhere important in the next season."), then the producers are free to confirm that. But, ... the absolute last thing the producers want is accusations that they tried to turn the fans against an actor by blaming the actor for the character leaving the show. Especially if the character has a large devoted following.
I don't really have an opinion on why Jennifer Lein left Voyager, or rather my opinion is that I don't know. Maybe she wanted more money, maybe she thought Seven of Nine joining the show would reduce her part to nearly non-existent, maybe the writers were sick of the character, maybe the producers were sick of the actress. The people who know the true story may be contractually bound to keep the details to themselves, or they may simply prefer to, but either way they aren't telling, and so all we have is guesswork.
I absolutely hated that. What were they thinking? For me, easily one of the worst character returns, ever.
In almost all cases, at least those I'm familiar with, when an actor or member of a rock band voluntarily leaves a series or rock band, then it's always clear statements like "xxx is leaving because he/she has got tired of the role, don't like the direction the show (or the band's music) is going or is simply searching for other projects. That is also confirmed by the leaving member too.
But when there are statements like "mutual agreement", then it's always foul play involved. In this case they came up with "Lien left of her own free will" and "mutual agreement", later on changed to "we couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and "mutual agreement" which indicates that they actually kicked out the actress/character.
What they actually should have stated was: "We wanted a "sexy babe" in the show to get the ratings up and therefore we had to fire someone to get a place for the "babe". We actually thought of firing Wang but when he ended up in that poll in that magazine, we decided to fire Lien instead."
Not to mention that she, as a shy and introvert person, wouldn't start arguing about it. However, rumors says that she was very unhappy over the decision which might be one reason why she didn't make any comments about it.
But that doesn't explain why they did bring her back for one episode, just to ruin and destroy her character and insult her fans.
Personally I find it the worst character returns ever. In fact, "Fury" is the worst episode ever made in any TV series.
Sorry, but I don't buy that theory. If she wanted to leave for different reasons, it would have been out and confirmed very quick. In most cases when some celebrity leaves a certain show because of other commitments or dissatisfaction with the salary or dissatisfaction with screen time, then it's more and less confirmed by each and everyone involved. When there's vague explanations and the magic words "mutual agreement", then there is mostly foul play involved.
If Jennifer Lien had left of her own free will, I'm sure that those in charge would have repeated that over and over again everytime the issue was brought up without changing a single syllable in it. I'm also sure that Jennifer Lien herself would have had announced it in some way with some statement about being tired of acting and preferring to do voice-work instead.
My impression is that those in charge were in some way embarrased with what they did, knowing that it was a rude act against the actress and that they tried to shove the whole thing under the carpet, making everyone forget about the whole issue as soon as possible by peretending that the character never existed.
However, it still doesn't explain why they all of a sudden brought back the actress for an episode in which the main purpose was to destroy and kill off her character-unless it was a way to show "the finger" to the character's fans.
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You could always go to New Jersey for this summer's Creation con, and ask Jen Lein herself re: why she left and why she came back.
Well, I live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean so it would be a long and costly journey. Maybe if I win on some lottery.
...or it could be none of our damn business whatever reasons she had for leaving. If Jen Lien is the private shy person you claim she is, then she wouldn't want her personal business to be known.
Sorry, but I don't buy that theory. If she wanted to leave for different reasons, it would have been out and confirmed very quick. In most cases when some celebrity leaves a certain show because of other commitments or dissatisfaction with the salary or dissatisfaction with screen time, then it's more and less confirmed by each and everyone involved. When there's vague explanations and the magic words "mutual agreement", then there is mostly foul play involved.
If Jennifer Lien had left of her own free will, I'm sure that those in charge would have repeated that over and over again everytime the issue was brought up without changing a single syllable in it. I'm also sure that Jennifer Lien herself would have had announced it in some way with some statement about being tired of acting and preferring to do voice-work instead.
My impression is that those in charge were in some way embarrased with what they did, knowing that it was a rude act against the actress and that they tried to shove the whole thing under the carpet, making everyone forget about the whole issue as soon as possible by peretending that the character never existed.
However, it still doesn't explain why they all of a sudden brought back the actress for an episode in which the main purpose was to destroy and kill off her character-unless it was a way to show "the finger" to the character's fans.
It's bad enough to be let go in the first place, the reasons of such don't need to be public knowledge if both parties don't want them to be. They respected the departure enough to not talk about it publically. Period.
First it can't be discussed because "it is in the past and over and done with", and now discussing the Trek actors is just "none of our business".
Do you post this in the 95% of the threads on the BBS that those statements are applicable? Doesn't leave us much to discuss. So, since that ends all possibility of talking about most of Star Trek, I'm just going to have to ignore the "In the past" and "None of my business" rules.
I have to agree with Withers. Mutual agreement says they canned her and didn't want to admit to canning her. I also think it probably WAS an intentional raspberry at the fans. Just like the last episode of Voyager was.
Do you post this in the 95% of the threads on the BBS that those statements are applicable? Doesn't leave us much to discuss. So, since that ends all possibility of talking about most of Star Trek, I'm just going to have to ignore the "In the past" and "None of my business" rules.
I have to agree with Withers. Mutual agreement says they canned her and didn't want to admit to canning her. I also think it probably WAS an intentional raspberry at the fans. Just like the last episode of Voyager was.
He didn't say that discussing it wasn't our business, he said they maybe they weren't telling us because it wasn't our business.
Which is much like what I had said: they can't make it public unless she agrees (either that's contractual, or just they realize that's the decent thing to do), and she doesn't want it made public. For whatever reason.
I still think my idea covers why the change: at first, they really blamed her, but later they realized their part in it, and changed what they were saying in an effort to acknowledge their own partial guilt.
Which is much like what I had said: they can't make it public unless she agrees (either that's contractual, or just they realize that's the decent thing to do), and she doesn't want it made public. For whatever reason.
I still think my idea covers why the change: at first, they really blamed her, but later they realized their part in it, and changed what they were saying in an effort to acknowledge their own partial guilt.
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