What happened after Voyager returned home?

[Sophie74656]

I'm going to jump into this Kes discussion quickly. 1st off, I happened to like Kes, and I thought that her actress did a great job.

Now, we now a few things. The 1st is that most Ocompa live to be around 9, and that a select few lived to be 12. We also know from Fury, that Kes was old, and senile.

That said, we know that in season 4, that she was around 3 years old, which means that she was around 7 or 8 when the events in Fury took place. We can't determine if she has an increased life span, but I'm guessing not, though perhaps she gained 1-2 years because of the events with the 2nd caretaker.

As for the fans, and the critics, there are always going to be people that like, or don't like a character. It's no excuse to be rude, or mean, as everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

The idea of energy sucking is an interesting one. We already know that Kes can make the flowers grow with her kinetic power, so it would make sense that she could also steal their energy. Weather or not that would help prolong her life, we can't be curtin.

Honestly, I think that it would be best if she didn't live to much longer. Having seen my grandad go through dementia, it's not a life that I would wish on anyone for very long, especially someone as sweet as Kes.

As for Q, like I said before, I'm not sure that he would be interested in Kes, and even if he was, I'm not sure that even a Q has the power to prolong life.

Also, he could have sent the ship home, but Q is not exactly known for his generosity, though he does sometimes do the right thing.

There is some consistency between Before and After and Fury. We saw in Before and After that her memory was completely gone. Based on her daughter's comments this is a normal occurrence for elderly ocampans. So since kes was approaching the end of her life in Fury it makes some sense that her memories were beginning to degrade which led to her wanting revenge on Voyager. I think it would be more interesting not to prolong her life as that makes her more unique. We have seen many species that live for hundreds of years before but we've never seen someone who lives for a short time. Exploring her whole life can have potential for great drama and character exploration.

 

[Sophie74656]

I'm not convinced that Q would take an interest in Kes, he seems to only be amused by annoying the captain.

I don't think he would either. There's nothing in it for him. Also Q are supposed to keep the order in the universe. Extending someone's natural life would be messing with that

 

[Nats]

In "Cold Fire", Tanis states that his father lived to be 20 years old and that the technology to prolong life could be used for Kes as well.

The events in the insulting piece of crap episode in season 6 should not be taken seriously because the whole episode is full of flaws and made only to humiliate and destroy a beloved character and insult the fans of the character. A lot of things doesn't make sense there. Why should an energy being age if the whole purpose for reaching that state is some sort of afterlife and why should "Kes" return to corporeal statewhen she could do much more as an energy being?

And why should "Kes" want to destroy the ship and kill her friends? Anyone who have seen one single episode of Voyager with Kes as one of the main character knows that she is kind and good hearted and more likely should kill herself than to do any harm to her friends.

I would like to assume that the crazy, ugly creature which did show up in that horrible episode is Suspiria in disguise or some other evil being and definitely not the real Kes. That theory is a lot more plausible than the silly idea of the Ocampa as "energy vampires" since it has been presented in some of the Voyager books (who in fact are written by real authors, not clowns out for a cheap revenge on the Kes fans).

Kes never made flowers grow by kinetic power, she used the old traditional way with water and shining light in the Hydroponic Bay and she never stole energy from any plants either.

If you don't want to see someone as sweet as Kes suffer from dementia, then I guess you'll find my suggestions for the character excellent. Those suggestions would definitely postpone such an event for at least 70-80 years. Stating that "it would be best if Kes didn't didn't live too much longer" is like saying that "it would be best if B'Elanna was killed off as soon as possible sh she didn't have to become an old Klingon facing the disgrace of dying of illnes or old agen instead of on the battlefield".

As I've written before. Q is mosly known for his whims and since he made Riker omnipotent, he also has the capability to prolong life.

In "Cold Fire", Tanis states that his father lived to be 20 years old and that the technology to prolong life could be used for Kes as well.

The events in the insulting piece of crap episode in season 6 should not be taken seriously because the whole episode is full of flaws and made only to humiliate and destroy a beloved character and insult the fans of the character. A lot of things doesn't make sense there. Why should an energy being age if the whole purpose for reaching that state is some sort of afterlife and why should "Kes" return to corporeal statewhen she could do much more as an energy being?

And why should "Kes" want to destroy the ship and kill her friends? Anyone who have seen one single episode of Voyager with Kes as one of the main character knows that she is kind and good hearted and more likely should kill herself than to do any harm to her friends.

I would like to assume that the crazy, ugly creature which did show up in that horrible episode is Suspiria in disguise or some other evil being and definitely not the real Kes. That theory is a lot more plausible than the silly idea of the Ocampa as "energy vampires" since it has been presented in some of the Voyager books (who in fact are written by real authors, not clowns out for a cheap revenge on the Kes fans).

Kes never made flowers grow by kinetic power, she used the old traditional way with water and shining light in the Hydroponic Bay and she never stole energy from any plants either.

If you don't want to see someone as sweet as Kes suffer from dementia, then I guess you'll find my suggestions for the character excellent. Those suggestions would definitely postpone such an event for at least 70-80 years. Stating that "it would be best if Kes didn't didn't live too much longer" is like saying that "it would be best if B'Elanna was killed off as soon as possible sh she didn't have to become an old Klingon facing the disgrace of dying of illnes or old agen instead of on the battlefield".

As I've written before. Q is mosly known for his whims and since he made Riker omnipotent, he also has the capability to prolong life.

I have to admit that I have not seen cold fire in a very long time.

I didn't like Fury, I thought it was a horrible ep, but unfortunately, it's still canon. I have no problem with Kes living a long time, just not in her current state. If she was healthy, that would be a different story.

Would you want to live for years with no memory, unable to care for yourself, ext? I wouldn't. I really don't understand humanity's obbession with keeping people alive, when they are suffering so badly. Prolonging life, at the expense of mental health, is not a life.

Q could take an interest in Kes, but I still think that it would be unlikely.

 

[Lynx]

There is some consistency between Before and After and Fury. We saw in Before and After that her memory was completely gone. Based on her daughter's comments this is a normal occurrence for elderly ocampans. So since kes was approaching the end of her life in Fury it makes some sense that her memories were beginning to degrade which led to her wanting revenge on Voyager. I think it would be more interesting not to prolong her life as that makes her more unique. We have seen many species that live for hundreds of years before but we've never seen someone who lives for a short time. Exploring her whole life can have potential for great drama and character exploration.

There is no consistency at all between "Cold Fire" and the insulting crap episode. Not at all.

Kes's daughter never actually existed, at least not in the "normal" universe, therefore her possible comments are irrelevant. Or do you really support that Kes and Tom Paris were married and had a daughter!

I see nothing unique with such a lifespan, I find it highly unrealistic. A species with such a short lifespan would never develope into anything else than primates.

I don't think he would either. There's nothing in it for him. Also Q are supposed to keep the order in the universe. Extending someone's natural life would be messing with that.

I see nothing which would stop Q from extending anyone's lifespan. he had no problems with making Riker omnipotent or simply delete Quark when Quark interfered in a conversation between Q and Vash in DS9 (although Vash told Q to bring Quark back, which he did). Q could easily extend Kes's lifespan just out of some whim.

And if not, Suspiria could!

I have to admit that I have not seen cold fire in a very long time.

I didn't like Fury, I thought it was a horrible ep, but unfortunately, it's still canon. I have no problem with Kes living a long time, just not in her current state. If she was healthy, that would be a different story.

Would you want to live for years with no memory, unable to care for yourself, ext? I wouldn't. I really don't understand humanity's obbession with keeping people alive, when they are suffering so badly. Prolonging life, at the expense of mental health, is not a life.

Q could take an interest in Kes, but I still think that it would be unlikely.

The point is that Kes became an energy being when she was 3 years old. Since becoming an energy being is the Ocampa afterlife, Kes wouldn't have aged at all. So when she returns to corporeal form she would still be 3 Ocampa years old and prolonging her lifespan from that is no problem.

The pathetic creature we saw in that horrible excuse for a Star Trek Voyager episode wasn't the real Kes. It was Suspiria in disguise or mor elikely some evil alien entity created by some real evil demons.

As for the "canon" created by the same evil demons, I just have three words to say: "F*** their canon!"
And the same for that crap episode. It should be wiped out from all upcoming DVD:s as well. If they do that, I promise to buy season 6 of Voyager on DVD.

 

[Sophie74656]

In an alternate timeline Tom and Kes did get married and have a child.


There is absolutely nothing to support the though that energy beings don't age. Since we saw on screen that she did age, the canon fact is that in the state she was in she did continue to age. Your own dislike of that idea doesn't negate the on screen canon fact.
Personally I think you're missing out on a lot of great episodes simply because Kes isn't in them.

 

[Sophie74656]

I have to admit that I have not seen cold fire in a very long time.

I didn't like Fury, I thought it was a horrible ep, but unfortunately, it's still canon. I have no problem with Kes living a long time, just not in her current state. If she was healthy, that would be a different story.

Would you want to live for years with no memory, unable to care for yourself, ext? I wouldn't. I really don't understand humanity's obbession with keeping people alive, when they are suffering so badly. Prolonging life, at the expense of mental health, is not a life.

Q could take an interest in Kes, but I still think that it would be unlikely.

I agree. I think it would be extremely unlikely that Q would do anything for Kes. In TNG he offered Riker the powers of Q but everything he did in TNG was a test to see how they would respond

 

[Lynx]

In an alternate timeline Tom and Kes did get married and have a child.


There is absolutely nothing to support the though that energy beings don't age. Since we saw on screen that she did age, the canon fact is that in the state she was in she did continue to age. Your own dislike of that idea doesn't negate the on screen canon fact.
Personally I think you're missing out on a lot of great episodes simply because Kes isn't in them.

There's more logic in supposing that energy beings dont age since that state is the Ocampan afterlife than it is in the theory of Ocampans as "energy vampires".

And in the "String Theory" books it's revealed that the creature which could be seen in that insulting crap episode wasn't the real Kes. That's my canon and I do find it more believable than "canon" which states that the events in "Investigations" happened before the events in the episode "Lifesigns" (check the stardates!).

As for missing episodes, I can live with that. However, it's not impossible that I will buy season 4-7 on DVD in some near future.

But there's one episode I will never watch, not even at gunpoint.

 

[Sophie74656]

There's more logic in supposing that energy beings dont age since that state is the Ocampan afterlife than it is in the theory of Ocampans as "energy vampires".

And in the "String Theory" books it's revealed that the creature which could be seen in that insulting crap episode wasn't the real Kes. That's my canon and I do find it more believable than "canon" which states that the events in "Investigations" happened before the events in the episode "Lifesigns" (check the stardates!).

As for missing episodes, I can live with that.

It's all just assumptions since energy beings don't actually exist. There's no canon support that she was in an afterlife either. Since she was seen on screen as looking older clearly she did age. Perhaps the boost she gave Voyager in The Gift drained something from her and took some of her life force and that's why she looked older.

 

[Nats]

It's all just assumptions since energy beings don't actually exist. There's no canon support that she was in an afterlife either. Since she was seen on screen as looking older clearly she did age. Perhaps the boost she gave Voyager in The Gift drained something from her and took some of her life force and that's why she looked older.

The caretaker was an energy being, and he grew old and died also.

 

[Nats]

There's more logic in supposing that energy beings dont age since that state is the Ocampan afterlife than it is in the theory of Ocampans as "energy vampires".

And in the "String Theory" books it's revealed that the creature which could be seen in that insulting crap episode wasn't the real Kes. That's my canon and I do find it more believable than "canon" which states that the events in "Investigations" happened before the events in the episode "Lifesigns" (check the stardates!).

As for missing episodes, I can live with that. However, it's not impossible that I will buy season 4-7 on DVD in some near future.

But there's one episode I will never watch, not even at gunpoint.

Even if that's not Kes in Fury, (and I'm not convinced that it is Kes), it's still canon. You can't deny that. You can hate it, despise it, even wish it was different, but you can't deny a proven fact.

 

[Nats]

It's all just assumptions since energy beings don't actually exist. There's no canon support that she was in an afterlife either. Since she was seen on screen as looking older clearly she did age. Perhaps the boost she gave Voyager in The Gift drained something from her and took some of her life force and that's why she looked older.

That's a good theory, it's very possible that using all the energy on Voyager, drained something or messed with something important to her.

 

[Refuge]

Someone raised the incongruity about Kes' hair. Why had she returned to short haired Kes in Fury as her older self?

I have to admit Fury relied on Kes holding onto a grudge that wasn't there. I mean she left Voyager a gift in The Gift. She was too unsure of her powers to stay but it was sacrifice she chose.

That Ocampa who said his father had reached 20, he himself said he was 14. He looked, human standard, as a thirty year old would.

As for imagining a life for Kes after Voyager returned.. given her temporal travels etc. it probably isn't impossible..

 

[Prax]

How could it not be Kes in Fury?

If Kes had stayed the whole seven years, they would've had to start aging her, even in season 4. By season 5, she would have to look janeway's age. If they didn't, any explanations would come off as contrived and even more people would be complaining that Voyager disregarded what it had established in Season 1.

 

[Nats]

How could it not be Kes in Fury?

If Kes had stayed the whole seven years, they would've had to start aging her, even in season 4. By season 5, she would have to look janeway's age. If they didn't, any explanations would come off as contrived and even more people would be complaining that Voyager disregarded what it had established in Season 1.

That's a very good point, I didn't think of that, .

 

[Sophie74656]

How could it not be Kes in Fury?

If Kes had stayed the whole seven years, they would've had to start aging her, even in season 4. By season 5, she would have to look janeway's age. If they didn't, any explanations would come off as contrived and even more people would be complaining that Voyager disregarded what it had established in Season 1.

Exactly. By the end of season 4 she would look in her 40s, 50s by the end of season 5, and so on. What would be the point of establishing things about the species if you just change it later? The shorter lifespan is much more interesting and unique in my opinion

 

[Refuge]

How come a 14 year old Ocampa looked younger than Kes in Fury?

I don't know. I get that she had to age, there is no shame in that. However, there are plenty of ways one could have had Kes re-invented to show up in the post Voyager years. I wouldn't have minded really knowing what became of her.

 

[Sophie74656]

How come a 14 year old Ocampa looked younger than Kes in Fury?

I don't know. I get that she had to age, there is no shame in that. However, there are plenty of ways one could have had Kes re-invented to show up in the post Voyager years. I wouldn't have minded really knowing what became of her.

It depends on what relative age he was. If he was 14 out of let's say potentially 30years then he should look middle aged if we're using human scale. Where kes was 6 out of 9 years so her relative age was greater

 

[Nats]

How come a 14 year old Ocampa looked younger than Kes in Fury?

I don't know. I get that she had to age, there is no shame in that. However, there are plenty of ways one could have had Kes re-invented to show up in the post Voyager years. I wouldn't have minded really knowing what became of her.

I would to have seen her in the post voyager. Actually, I wish that they had done another season, I would have liked to see how everyone adapted to being back on earth

It depends on what relative age he was. If he was 14 out of let's say potentially 30years then he should look middle aged if we're using human scale. Where kes was 6 out of 9 years so her relative age was greater

I would have liked to have seen her post voyager also.

 

[Sophie74656]

I would to have seen her in the post voyager. Actually, I wish that they had done another season, I would have liked to see how everyone adapted to being back on earth


I would have liked to have seen her post voyager also.

I would have loved some canon stuff post voyager
As for Kes it sounds nice that she used her powers to go back to her home planet and help them

 

[Nats]

I would have loved some canon stuff post voyager
As for Kes it sounds nice that she used her powers to go back to her home planet and help them

, mabye we should start a petition to get them to do a reunion ep.