Spoilers What does SNW get right that DSC and PIC got wrong??

[ananta]

Basically what Lord Garth said; SNW has absolutely gone out of its way to cater to whatever it thinks the fans want. It’s done so very well, too. The producers were so burned by the response of certain segments of the fandom when DSC began that they became ardent people pleasers, constantly retooling even DSC to placate complaints too (and in the process losing the edge which I personally enjoyed in it’s first couple of seasons). SNW is very safe, frankly; it’s a good show and I enjoy it, but it perhaps steps backwards rather than forwards creatively. I personally prefer a tighter serialised approach which I think lends itself better to shorter seasons. They’ve also totally overegged the pudding when it comes to TOS legacy characters. I wish SNW was a bit “stranger” and “new” in terms of its stories. It very much feels like they base the storytelling on Trek’s greatest hits (and the greatest hits of other franchises and materials too at times). But, again, I think that’s what a lot of fans want and that’s why it’s so popular. Fans really don’t want new things in general; they want different permutations of the same thing.

 

[Tosk]

SNW is very safe, frankly

A show that had a crossover with a cartoon and a musical episode in the space of just a few weeks is playing it safe?

 

[Dee1891]

So I think we can all agree the majority of us enjoy SNW while we were quite divided over DSC & PIC.

So what does SNW get right that the others got wrong?? A couple of my ideas.

1) A Starfleet captain: Pike is what a Starship captain should be, Lorca/Saru/Burnham/Rios/That version of Picard are not.

2) It's light tone, we like Star Trek because it's bright and optimistic (even in tone when the Story isn't) - SNW is the only one that achieves this, DSC & PIC were slit your wrists dark at some points.

3) The episodic format, Trek works best it's episodic.

4) Back to the roots! - it's about exploring (ahem) "Strange New Worlds" .

Anything to add?

No, I can't agree with that assessment. My opinion of SNW is about the same as DIS and PIC. Actually, my opinion of PIC is a bit lower.

I wish SNW was a bit “stranger” and “new” in terms of its stories. It very much feels like they base the storytelling on Trek’s greatest hits (and the greatest hits of other franchises and materials too at times). But, again, I think that’s what a lot of fans want and that’s why it’s so popular. Fans really don’t want new things in general; they want different permutations of the same thing.

Which makes me a bit surprised that "Barbie" is so popular right now.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Both have hits and misses, but I enjoy episodic and serialised storytelling. I like that SNW is able to take more risks cos it's one and done, story-wise (although I didn't like the musical) but they could do a risky serialised story that I might love too.

I miss the Disco Klingons, who were actually fearsome and am sick of the TNG/DS9 doofuses.

SNW has yet to do something like Picard S3, which set out to aggressively undo seasons one and two. They just flashback to Discovery then feature totally different Klingons

 

[1001001]

Added a spoiler tag since the last seasons of PIC and SNW are still under spoiler rules.

As for the rest...

 

[ED-209]

I miss the Disco Klingons, who were actually fearsome and am sick of the TNG/DS9 doofuses.

I'm actually with you on that one, one thing early DSC got right is it made the Klingons scary again. You really wouldn't want to knock one of their pints over. By the end of DS9 Klingons could be beat up by a middle aged overweight guy (O'Brien).

 

[Takeru]

Discovery and Picard are two examples of "Be careful what you wish for" because when Star Trek was not serialized a lot of fans were demanding heavily serialized epic stories that couldn't be done in one or two episodes.
And even DS9's efforts sometimes didn't seem be enough because as soon as they did a standalone episode in between the arc episodes people started asking when they'll go back to the "real" story.

I am concinced if Voyager had been the heavily serialized show that many fans still think it should have been there would be endless complaints like "Why does the ship look like crap, they have replicator technology and basically unlimited energy, just fix it properly" or "OMG, will the year of hell actually last an entire year??? Just move on already, you're trying to get home not fly in circles!!!"

 

[Mr J]

I think SNW addresses what DISCO and PIC got wrong.
I also think that where SNW suffers, it is by missing what DISCO and PIC got right.
I also think that what one viewer says SNW is "doing right", another viewer will say that the same thing is what it is "doing wrong", and vice versa.

I think that is part of the intention with how they've managed the roll-out of nuTrek - create different content that different sections of the fandom can latch onto and enjoy, rather than expecting everyone to like everything about all of it at once. SNW is clearly aimed more at the hardcore classic ST fan, in that it is essentially "back to basics" but open and modern enough for most people to enjoy to some degree.

You will get ST fans who like all of the content to different extents because they love ST - but for most people, one or two types at most are what they will latch onto. Most of the people I know who love DISCO are people that only casually enjoyed ST beforehand but truly love DISCO.

Most of the people I know who love SNW are people who are old-school Trekkies (my circles are hardly a scientific representation of the world, but you get the gist - nuTrek is very much designed as a "different strokes for different folks" model). Interestingly - most of the people I know who latched onto DISCO don't seem to have an interest in SNW, despite it essentially being a spin-off. Personally - I don't find SNW as interesting (though that isn't to say I haven't enjoyed it) precisely because it is basically just TOS with modern production values.

I'm also not convinced that in the "real world", SNW is any more or less popular than the other nuTrek creations - and so starting with the premise "what has SNW has got right that the others have got wrong" really only applies to one section of fandom, and dare I say comes across a tad passive aggressive towards the non-SNW content. A lot of viewers simply haven't even looked at SNW because it doesn't interest them.

 

[fireproof78]

A show that had a crossover with a cartoon and a musical episode in the space of just a few weeks is playing it safe?

Yes, absolutely. Because it's episodic and people ignore what they don't like.

 

[Victoria]

The advantage of "episodic" vs "serialised" is that in episodic programmes, you don't have to like everything. If you don't like today's episode, there'll be another along next week. In serialised programmes, you are stuck with the story whether you like it or not. In Discovery, that wasn't helped by the inconsistency of the serialisation.

Also, you don't have to like all the main characters whereas in serials, dislike the main character and you've had it as they will be shoehorned into everything even when it makes more sense for other characters to be involved. In episodic television, every character can have a chance to shine.

Episodic television has greater rewatchability - you can just watch single episodes. In a serial, you are committed to watching 6/10/whatever episodes.

Add in some light serialisation so that actions have consequences and you have more meaningful television.

 

[fireproof78]

Add in some light serialisation so that actions have consequences and you have more meaningful television.

Yes, otherwise episodic smacks of near uselessness.

 

[Mage]

So I think we can all agree the majority of us enjoy SNW while we were quite divided over DSC & PIC.

So what does SNW get right that the others got wrong?? A couple of my ideas.

1) A Starfleet captain: Pike is what a Starship captain should be, Lorca/Saru/Burnham/Rios/That version of Picard are not.

2) It's light tone, we like Star Trek because it's bright and optimistic (even in tone when the Story isn't) - SNW is the only one that achieves this, DSC & PIC were slit your wrists dark at some points.

3) The episodic format, Trek works best it's episodic.

4) Back to the roots! - it's about exploring (ahem) "Strange New Worlds" .

Anything to add?

This is one of those posts that starts with "I have thoughts on Star Trek and my thoughts are the correct ones." Nothing here is voiced as an opinion. To me, that's already a thread I'm not interested in.

Just the first line: I think we can all agree.....
No, we don't. That's the fun part. You think/feel something. Some agree, some don't. Some are the middle. The entire start of this topic is already wrong.

 

[ED-209]

This is one of those posts that starts with "I have thoughts on Star Trek and my thoughts are the correct ones." Nothing here is voiced as an opinion. To me, that's already a thread I'm not interested in.

Cool story bro.

 

[Mage]

Cool story bro.

Yes, it is. Don't ask about what other people think if you can't handle it.

There is no bad or wrong Star Trek. There is just Star Trek, in different ways. You will like some, you will love some, you will hate some. This is just another thread about "I hate current Star Trek and I need everyone to agree me". They're boring and abundant. I'd rather see another topic on the awesomeness of Pike's hair or why people think the size of a starship matters than more of this.

 

[ED-209]

It's really not, SNW is highly praised - I've seen few bad things said about it - opinion on DSC and PIC was very divided.

This thread is simply about asking what SNW got right, if you don't agree with that fair enough, say so - as several people have. You've made a total non issue out of something that doesn't even exist.

 

[1001001]

Cool story bro.

That's enough of that.

 

[Dee1891]

I think SNW addresses what DISCO and PIC got wrong.

I don't think so. I think SNW had created its own set of problems. For me, the biggest are its lack of originality and Pike.

 

[Mage]

It's really not, SNW is highly praised - I've seen few bad things said about it - opinion on DSC and PIC was very divided.

This thread is simply about asking what SNW got right, if you don't agree with that fair enough, say so - as several people have. You've made a total non issue out of something that doesn't even exist.

No, you clearly stated SNW got a lot right, and DISCO and PIC did a lot wrong. That's stating an opinion as fact. It's not what was said after, it's about how you formulated your original concept. Both the ask and the points you delivered. If you want to engage people in a discussion, begin with saying that you feel and think some things, and ask what others think and feel. This creates normal discussion.

Also, it's a subject that has been discussed A LOT in many topics. I am not a mod, and if they feel I am overstepping my bounds they can absolutely tell me so and I will stop. But really, we don't need another discussion on this subject while it's going on it other thread.

 

[ED-209]

@Mage -LMAO - for Gods sake man it's an opinion - it by nature can't be fact - get real. It's a discussion board and I wanted to have a discussion - if you actually believe what you're saying and aren't just being picky for the sake of it - you're FAR too sensitive and makes me wonder how you actually manage in the real world.

I don't think so. I think SNW had created its own set of problems. For me, the biggest are its lack of originality and Pike.

You don't like Pike?? Why? This is the first bad thing I've heard about (this version of) Pike.

 

[Mage]

@Mage -LMAO - for Gods sake man it's an opinion - it by nature can't be fact - get real. It's a discussion board and I wanted to have a discussion - if you actually believe what you're saying and aren't just being picky for the sake of it - you're FAR too sensitive and makes me wonder how you actually manage in the real world..

Really? That's where you are going with this? Do you feel so attacked that you need to resort to personal insults?