Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
HERESY !!!!
Ugly kitbash.
Agreed.
HERESY !!!!
Ugly kitbash.
Agreed.
What do you think about the USS Vengeance ? (spoilers, probably)
- Thread starter Belz...
- Start date
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
I like the USS Vengeance: as has been previously mentioned, I also think it was designed by Section 31 to be awe-inspiringly huge and visually intimidating, creating as much visual impact as possible through it's presence.
If it looked even remotely traditionally starfleet-eque, then it wasn't doing the job it was intended for: instilling overwhelming fear into it's enemies (by it's OTT size, weaponry, speed, etc...).
This was a special black-ops project (seemingly off-the-grid), not the next stage in starship evolution, but rather a focussed attempt to design an agressive weapons platform.
There should be nothing graceful about this dreadnaught (either visually or in purpose).
One of the best adversary Trek starship designs, IMO.
I have a feeling we might see her again... after all... war is coming... 
I like the USS Vengeance: as has been previously mentioned, I also think it was designed by Section 31 to be awe-inspiringly huge and visually intimidating, creating as much visual impact as possible through it's presence.
If it looked even remotely traditionally starfleet-eque, then it wasn't doing the job it was intended for: instilling overwhelming fear into it's enemies (by it's OTT size, weaponry, speed, etc...).
This was a special black-ops project (seemingly off-the-grid), not the next stage in starship evolution, but rather a focussed attempt to design an agressive weapons platform.
There should be nothing graceful about this dreadnaught (either visually or in purpose).
One of the best adversary Trek starship designs, IMO.
I have a feeling we might see her again... after all... war is coming... 
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
The Trireme disagrees with this logic.
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
The Vengeance delivered a beatdown to the Ent, yes... because that's what it was designed to do. It was a super warship that was purpose built to be a super warship as part of a high-end government black ops project with resources, funding, and technical know-how sourced from one of the biggest and most technologically advanced powers in known space (possibly the single most advanced; we don't know that one way or another of course, but it's not unlikely).
The Scimitar was built by Reman slave laborers. In secret. While slave laboring. While under the thumb of the Romulan Empire - one of the most meticulous and internally paranoid powers in known space, who somehow missed all this activity. And it swatted aside the Ent-E and two cutting-edge Romulan warships like they were nothing. Sure, the fight lasted longer, but that seems to only be because Shinzon was a massive idiot and kept wanting to play with Picard. The Scimitar supposedly had over 50 disruptor banks; throughout the battle, we saw, what... two being fired?
The Ent-E literally ran out of freakin ammo and had still barely caused the slightest dent.
On top of that, the ship had a "perfect" cloak (that's how it was described in the movie, that's not my own choice of word there). Out of the blue, these Reman slave laborers and their inexplicable human clone reject leader guy completely shot past the technological capabilities of the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons, by making a cloak that left NO traces of any kind of the cloaked ship (something previous cloaks could never do) and allowed full weapons and shields while cloaked.
The Vengeance was just "a really badass warship." And it's badassery made sense when you consider who built it.
The Scimitar was bad fan-wank, and it's capabilities made NO sense when you consider who built it.
I'm sure.
The Vengeance delivered a beatdown to the Ent, yes... because that's what it was designed to do. It was a super warship that was purpose built to be a super warship as part of a high-end government black ops project with resources, funding, and technical know-how sourced from one of the biggest and most technologically advanced powers in known space (possibly the single most advanced; we don't know that one way or another of course, but it's not unlikely).
The Scimitar was built by Reman slave laborers. In secret. While slave laboring. While under the thumb of the Romulan Empire - one of the most meticulous and internally paranoid powers in known space, who somehow missed all this activity. And it swatted aside the Ent-E and two cutting-edge Romulan warships like they were nothing. Sure, the fight lasted longer, but that seems to only be because Shinzon was a massive idiot and kept wanting to play with Picard. The Scimitar supposedly had over 50 disruptor banks; throughout the battle, we saw, what... two being fired?
The Ent-E literally ran out of freakin ammo and had still barely caused the slightest dent.
On top of that, the ship had a "perfect" cloak (that's how it was described in the movie, that's not my own choice of word there). Out of the blue, these Reman slave laborers and their inexplicable human clone reject leader guy completely shot past the technological capabilities of the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons, by making a cloak that left NO traces of any kind of the cloaked ship (something previous cloaks could never do) and allowed full weapons and shields while cloaked.
The Vengeance was just "a really badass warship." And it's badassery made sense when you consider who built it.
The Scimitar was bad fan-wank, and it's capabilities made NO sense when you consider who built it.
I don't even think it DIDN'T look "remotely" Starfleet-esque. A departure, sure, but I'm not seeing the hugely not-at-all-Starfleet (and, apparently, "evil") look to this ship that others are.
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
I see your point. It doesn't help that there's no way the Remans could build it. I'd rather think it was a Romulan design that they hijacked.
Oh, and you forgot to mention the hugely convoluted super-weapon that it had.
If the Enterprise came out firing, I don't think it would have had time to run out of ammo against the Vengeance, though. Of course, we're talking about two vastly different matchups, here. Which means we're going to have a Scimitar vs Vengeance thread !
Somehow I don't find your argument convincing.
I see your point. It doesn't help that there's no way the Remans could build it. I'd rather think it was a Romulan design that they hijacked.
Oh, and you forgot to mention the hugely convoluted super-weapon that it had.
If the Enterprise came out firing, I don't think it would have had time to run out of ammo against the Vengeance, though. Of course, we're talking about two vastly different matchups, here. Which means we're going to have a Scimitar vs Vengeance thread !
Somehow I don't find your argument convincing.
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
I feel like I fell in love with the design ever since it appeared in its first trailer. The more I learned about it the more I liked it, which is surprising in the face of the misshapen secondary hull, just-there nacelle struts, and the cuts into the primary hull.
I'm actually disappointed we won't get to see more of this ship in action. What were those phaser cannons and how powerful were they? What about the weapons pods attached to the secondary hull? How about more booming and zooming warp-intrusion attacks?
I don't think I've been as impressed with a new Trek design before, certainly not with the Sovereign or any of the First Contact fleet. I guess this kind of feels like if they took TMP in a bit of a whimsical direction and darkened everything, which i don't see as a bad thing because TMP is the best of Trek visual design.
Also I didn't think Vengeance was too fan-wanky of a name. I can think up a few other titles that would be better deserving of being accused that way.
Not likely we'll see more of the Dreadnought class and her ilk in future Trek productions, but I'd consider it a pleasant surprise if we did.
I feel like I fell in love with the design ever since it appeared in its first trailer. The more I learned about it the more I liked it, which is surprising in the face of the misshapen secondary hull, just-there nacelle struts, and the cuts into the primary hull.
I'm actually disappointed we won't get to see more of this ship in action. What were those phaser cannons and how powerful were they? What about the weapons pods attached to the secondary hull? How about more booming and zooming warp-intrusion attacks?
I don't think I've been as impressed with a new Trek design before, certainly not with the Sovereign or any of the First Contact fleet. I guess this kind of feels like if they took TMP in a bit of a whimsical direction and darkened everything, which i don't see as a bad thing because TMP is the best of Trek visual design.
Also I didn't think Vengeance was too fan-wanky of a name. I can think up a few other titles that would be better deserving of being accused that way.
Not likely we'll see more of the Dreadnought class and her ilk in future Trek productions, but I'd consider it a pleasant surprise if we did.
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
Its A dreadnaught (Big Battleship) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought
I know in the last 20 years. there have been no battleships in any navy But The USN. I liked the Vengeance Wish they build 20 just like it.
Its A dreadnaught (Big Battleship) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought
I know in the last 20 years. there have been no battleships in any navy But The USN. I liked the Vengeance Wish they build 20 just like it.
The Vengeance is supposed to be ugly and 'unlikeable' as it's a symbol of man 'going into darkness' , it's a cynical and nasty statement from Starfleet opposed to what they normally send out to represent themselves in space.
Where as on the otherhand the Sovereign class Ent-E is grey, ugly and cynical looking and that is supposed to be the hero ship commanded by a pacificist - but that's ok because many of you grew up into worshipping ugly ships like that.
Where as on the otherhand the Sovereign class Ent-E is grey, ugly and cynical looking and that is supposed to be the hero ship commanded by a pacificist - but that's ok because many of you grew up into worshipping ugly ships like that.
I like the E a lot better than the D which looks like a bath toy.
It is ugly, it's grey, plastic looking and cynical. Same goes for the Defiant and Voyager. Any sight of them on the big screen immediately makes a film look low rent.
About the crew of the Vengeance, Khan says she was modified for a minimal crew, one if necessary. I suspect they have room for 10,000+ troops in that saucer alone.
And the thing they all have in common is that they don't exist... so dial back the rhetoric please. It's not important enough to declare a holy war over.
I get and respect that you don't like the designs but I don't understand what you mean by 'cynical'.
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