Absolutely.
BTW: I love those conceptual art images of the Vengeance - she looks appropriately formidible!
What do you think about the USS Vengeance ? (spoilers, probably)
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Absolutely.
BTW: I love those conceptual art images of the Vengeance - she looks appropriately formidible!
I don't think there's been anything official yet, but this guy on deviantART put together some calculations based on various sources of sizes for the Enterprise, and then compared it to the Vengeance.
http://galaxy1701d.deviantart.com/journal/Just-How-Big-is-the-U-S-S-Vengeance-367872463
Re: What do you think about the USS Vengeance ?
Well, according to Star Trek: Countdown, Nero spent time with the crew of the Enterprise-E prior to his travel into the past of this alternate timeline, so it is possible that prior to its destruction, the Kelvin somehow downloaded these futuristic ship designs (from scans the Narada had done of the Enterprise-E) and transmitted them back to Starfleet via the escaped survivors, or it could have come from secret studies of the Narada by Section 31 covert teams while the future Romulan vessel was in Klingon custody for 20 years -.I don't know -.all I know is that the similarities in design to elements of the Enterprise-E are significant... makes sense, since I think both designs were made by the same production designer?
Well, according to Star Trek: Countdown, Nero spent time with the crew of the Enterprise-E prior to his travel into the past of this alternate timeline, so it is possible that prior to its destruction, the Kelvin somehow downloaded these futuristic ship designs (from scans the Narada had done of the Enterprise-E) and transmitted them back to Starfleet via the escaped survivors, or it could have come from secret studies of the Narada by Section 31 covert teams while the future Romulan vessel was in Klingon custody for 20 years -.I don't know -.all I know is that the similarities in design to elements of the Enterprise-E are significant... makes sense, since I think both designs were made by the same production designer?
I wouldn't call the Vengeance a product of Next-Gen tech. I think the only "thing" it used out of next generation in terms of capability was combat at warp speeds- and even here Warp Drive is something different from the previous understandings of Star Trek.
I think the Vengeance is a result of pushing military technologies ahead, especially after the Narada blew through an entire "Modern" Federation battle group. With the Klingons the next antagonists around the corner (And perhaps the Romulans, if the comics' depiction of Romulan acquisition of Narada data is canon), its not hard to see why Admiral Marcus wanted a Big Stick to protect the Federation with.
Hard to say where the Feds stand if they decide to back away from their most powerful warship... and I don't think either of these powers are very willing to give peace and love a chance when the chips are on the table.
I think the Vengeance is a result of pushing military technologies ahead, especially after the Narada blew through an entire "Modern" Federation battle group. With the Klingons the next antagonists around the corner (And perhaps the Romulans, if the comics' depiction of Romulan acquisition of Narada data is canon), its not hard to see why Admiral Marcus wanted a Big Stick to protect the Federation with.
Hard to say where the Feds stand if they decide to back away from their most powerful warship... and I don't think either of these powers are very willing to give peace and love a chance when the chips are on the table.
^ To go along with that, I made a collage of all the aircraft, spacecraft, and ships from the History of Flight display in Starfleet HQ in the movie, thanks to the QMx models.
(click to enlarge)
Very nice, thank you!!
It's pretty weird that it's there.. but I guess hidden in plain sight. If people admire Marcus's ships he can run his finger along the back of the Vengeance and say, "and this one is for a time I hope we never have to live.." to keep up his cover of not a warmonger.[/quote]
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My first thoughts were "ugly," and "malevolent," which is what I imagine the reaction was supposed to be. It certainly doesn't compare to the graceful lines of the Enterprise, but then the Enterprise was built for exploration, while the Vengeance was built for war. I much prefer the Enterprise.
What if it had been white like the Enterprise?
With all those angles and lines it might have looked like an origami ship.
With all those angles and lines it might have looked like an origami ship.
^^^ Do you mean the limited edition Blu-Ray Enterprise replica model?
http://onceuponageek.com/2009/11/10/star-trek-dvd-and-blu-ray-retail-exclusives/
I have the DVD version model - in fact, I glued the primary saucer together, and it makes quite an awesome starship replica, IMO.
No, I mean the special feature on the BluRay.
The Vengeance is one of the fugliest Starfleet ships IMO. Looks like a duck in the side profile. It would have worked better to make the ship just slightly larger than the Enterprise.
Apart from the significance of the Kelvin's destruction, the ship could have had an important career before its end. From the comics we know that the crew made first contact with Keenser's people.
Apart from the significance of the Kelvin's destruction, the ship could have had an important career before its end. From the comics we know that the crew made first contact with Keenser's people.
It was nice of them to use one of my old homemade LEGO designs in the movie.
I think you're referring to the Starfleet Vessel Simulator which was part of the Blu-Ray extras?^^^ Do you mean the limited edition Blu-Ray Enterprise replica model?
http://onceuponageek.com/2009/11/10/star-trek-dvd-and-blu-ray-retail-exclusives/
I have the DVD version model - in fact, I glued the primary saucer together, and it makes quite an awesome starship replica, IMO.
No, I mean the special feature on the BluRay.
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I think you're referring to the Starfleet Vessel Simulator which was part of the Blu-Ray extras?^^^ Do you mean the limited edition Blu-Ray Enterprise replica model?
http://onceuponageek.com/2009/11/10/star-trek-dvd-and-blu-ray-retail-exclusives/
I have the DVD version model - in fact, I glued the primary saucer together, and it makes quite an awesome starship replica, IMO.
No, I mean the special feature on the BluRay.
Thanks for confirming that
Apologies for the mixup. I'll take that as I sign I need to upgrade from DVD to Blu-Ray...
If you read the entire article he goes on how the Enterprise is supposed to be three hundred meters. So I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
I did read the entire article. Opinions don't invalidate math, and regardless of how he feels about the designers or the decision to supersize the Enterprise (and by extension making the Vengeance huge), he did provide measurements based on all of the different sizes for the Enterprise mentioned in various official publications, websites, and DVD/Blu-Ray special features. So the reader can choose which measurement they wish to follow, which seems pretty reasonable to me. If you say to take his measurements with a grain of salt, it would be better to show where he was wrong in his calculations for the various sizes, if at all.
No, but your assumptions can. We have very few shots that can allow us to judge the relative sizes, and as we know from other sci-fi movies and shows, scaling often varies from one shot to the next. Better wait for an official size, or assume the "twice as big" really means "twice as long".
Good grief.
The guy makes it clear that this is obviously speculation based on limited data, and he's not claiming that it's definitive. Also, despite his personal feelings about the size he made sure to include measurements of the Enterprise (and by extension the Vengeance) based on every official source, including the same ones KingDaniel and I have used in this and other threads to show how massive the Vengeance is. This isn't some statistical or polling SNAFU based on leading questions and biased assumptions. How many qualifiers does he have to include to avoid being irrationally dismissed based on his opinion, and without any counter-evidence against the calculations themselves?
As far as waiting for an official size, the poster I was responding to was asking for measurements now, so that doesn't really help him. I told him there were no official measurements as of yet, but that that page had some worthwhile calculations about the size. I stand by that response.
It's measurements of a fictional ship, not the Protestant Reformation. A little educated speculation is not going to hurt anything, and dismissing people who have alternate opinions from yours even when they present their results fairly and rationally and take into account multiple points of view doesn't come across well.
I think the scene in which Vengeance closes on Enterprise in the warp "vortex" was quite literally breath taking. In so far as the design of the ship is concerned, I can't really claim that I like it, but I don't like the design of the HMS Rodney either, but you can't argue with the effectiveness of a ship that stands up to and dukes it out with the Bismarck!
Specifically, however, I find the cut out in the primary hull distasteful. What possible purpose does it serve? Not a ship I would have designed, but I am willing to suspend my disbelief, even considering her rather questionable size. (How rigid would a structure that large actually be?) Ever considered the Ju-87 Stuka? It was designed, at least in part, to instill terror in those witnessing it. Same principle could apply to Vengeance I suppose. (And before people jump on it, I'm not comparing Starfleet to the Nazi party! I'm comparing design purpose, not political philosophy.)
My biggest problem is with her "minimal crew" aspect. Warships carry large crews for a reason, you know. In battle it could rapidly become necessary to replace casualties at critical posts; damage control requires manpower reserves. But then JJ, despite having given us a new, vibrant take on Trek, obviously hasn't the first clue as to how a hierarchical organization such as the Navy or Coast Guard (or Merchant Marine for that matter) actually works. Though this is an issue, it doesn't keep me from thinking that Into Darkness is a phenomenal film.
Specifically, however, I find the cut out in the primary hull distasteful. What possible purpose does it serve? Not a ship I would have designed, but I am willing to suspend my disbelief, even considering her rather questionable size. (How rigid would a structure that large actually be?) Ever considered the Ju-87 Stuka? It was designed, at least in part, to instill terror in those witnessing it. Same principle could apply to Vengeance I suppose. (And before people jump on it, I'm not comparing Starfleet to the Nazi party! I'm comparing design purpose, not political philosophy.)
My biggest problem is with her "minimal crew" aspect. Warships carry large crews for a reason, you know. In battle it could rapidly become necessary to replace casualties at critical posts; damage control requires manpower reserves. But then JJ, despite having given us a new, vibrant take on Trek, obviously hasn't the first clue as to how a hierarchical organization such as the Navy or Coast Guard (or Merchant Marine for that matter) actually works. Though this is an issue, it doesn't keep me from thinking that Into Darkness is a phenomenal film.
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