What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. FredH

    FredH Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Since we seem to be having the “TOS-R: Threat or Menace?” discussion again, here’s my take on it:

    Back in the day, I tried to get my life partner into Trek by watching “The Menagerie”. She didn’t get very far, literally laughing at the old effects (which I thought were perfectly fine).

    Years later, the Remaster came along, and we tried that version of “The Menagerie”. She never noticed the effects at all, but Part 2 ended and she turned to me and said, with surprise, “That was terrific!”

    And that’s why I’ll never damn the Remaster, or complain that the CGI isn’t good enough—because that’s not the point. The point is that it enabled a modern viewer to get past their own visual prejudices and see the story. For that, TOS-R was a job well done, even if I disagree with some of its choices.
     
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  2. Cr0sis21

    Cr0sis21 Captain Captain

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    That's an opinion many have, but I think it's a very situational effort. Would I slather CGI over the practical effects in The Thing? No. But we've continuously seen that the creatures on Trek, many different Treks, have felt hamstrung by budget and technology limitations. If it isn't changing the story, then I don't see it as being a while lot different than doing restorations of fine art or translations of literary works.
     
  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think in some cases they really did, whereas in some other places they did a good job.

    The Mojave CGI replacing the backdrop in "The Cage" is an example of where they did well. The insertion of a glimpse of ShiKahr into "Amok Time" was also good.

    Examples of the bad? Every new shot of the shuttlebay simply trashed the exceptional ambiance of the original shots. The dematerialization VFX in "Friday's Child" were also ruined.

    The new musical soundtrack for the opening theme is, in a word, grating. The VFX of the ship flybys in the opening are vastly inferior to the originals used in the second season, they are disappointingly limp as opposed to exciting and lightning.

    I'm trying to be positive here, but "mixed bag" is about as far as I can go in that direction.
     
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  4. Citiprime

    Citiprime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like SNW better than Discovery (which is probably my least favorite) but I think I can understand the appeal of Discovery for those that like it.

    In that (imho) it does deviate the most from Trek’s usual patterns of storytelling, especially since it’s based in season-long arcs, and the relationships are more akin to modern dramas like Grey’s Anatomy.

    And I think SNW tries to split the difference between Discovery’s tone and feeling more familiar and traditional.
    With TOS-R, I remember seeing something where the Okudas explained their objective was not to replace the intention of the orginal vfx and they were very careful not to bring the effects up to current standards but to enhance and refine the effects as they existed.

    They did NOT want to replace the TOS effects and act like they never existed. They just wanted to clean them up and make them the best they could be within the context that they originally existed.
     
  5. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why stop at exterior shots?:lol:
     
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  6. Paul755

    Paul755 Commodore Commodore

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    I’d do the reverse, wipe out all shots of the Discoprise and replace with the proper Enterprise. You can go straight to the series version instead of the 2nd pilot version if you must.
     
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  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Brought to you in PAL pitch.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. Using modern technology and tools is not "shitting" on the past. It's taking the same attitude as TMP and using technology to update the look. The principles behind the world are still the same; phasers still phaser, transporters still transport, warp drive is still speed of plot,and on it goes.


    It's theater to me. Or special editions. :whistle:

    Now that's an interesting take.
     
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  9. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Are these people who complain about the updated effects on TOS-R watching TOS on an actual 1960s TV to stay true to the original unaltered production intent they prize so much? Or are you watching it on a modern 4K flatpanel with surround sound for that authentic 1966 experience?
     
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  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No and no.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No. I use a basic flat screen and VHS.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    This simply isn't a good analogy, because the consumer has no choice in the matter. Just like, now, when watching TOS on OTA/Cable/Streaming TV, all we have are the 2006 versions. If you want the original effects, you have to go and hunt down the home video versions of the show.

    Nothing I would love more than to have a 25" color TV and BetaMax and LaserDisc players, and media to enjoy the show. That is just no longer practical for me.

    Soon, only the hardest of hard core fans will even know those 60's effects even exist. To me, that is something important being lost.
     
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  13. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Medic!
     
  14. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's not that I don't like it. I think it's a fine show. It's just not my favourite.
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course.

    Still interesting.
     
  16. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't help but think this is because CBS went cheap in the middle of the series remaster. A lot of the effects in the later episodes don't pass muster to the earlier ones.
     
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  17. Poldon

    Poldon Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    While my original statement about the Discoprise was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, FredH nailed my reasoning. My wife, too, wouldn't watch TOS without the remastered effects, and I believe some of the "next generation" might laugh off even the remastered effects, given the sometimes clumsy CGI.
     
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  18. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can only watch TOS with the original effects on blu-Ray. I need to see it the way I originally saw it (albeit greatly appreciating the incredibly improved picture quality). I’m so glad that, unlike Star Wars, we still have that option.
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    VHS no longer works for people?
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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