What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Funny enough the only Section 31 that I've seen is on Disco. And there they are written as the bad guys. They don't do what must be done. They do what they want to do. There is no reason to give Emperor Georgiou freedom, let alone free reign. It was only done (in writing) to keep a character and an actor and (in universe) because S31 saw a like minded individual who could maybe be useful. Not necessary. Just, you know, neat. Also there was nothing in the characters that I saw but contempt for the Federation. It's not "We do what unfortunately has to be done" it's more "If you idiots were smart you would do what has to be done too." Even John LeCarre's spy's did not have so much contempt for their home countries.

Maybe in other Treks it's different. (Well, not Lower Decks, obviously.)

I might be interested to see a Star Trek espionage show. If you can give me someone like Ben Sisko who will sell his soul so that you can keep yours then I'll be on board. But this nihil-ier than thou nonsense? I've got 10 years of Voyager and Enterprise to catch up on, thanks. And then there are TOS reruns. And how many time CAN I watch TMP? (Soooo many.)

You give me the Star Trek version of Person of Interest? I'll be a life long fan!

 

Well, you could always try watching DS9 or Star Trek Into Darkness

 

Working on it. I was making good way until Apple gave me a free trial and I discovered Ted Lasso.

So you're arguing "against"?

 

I would rather watch the worst 5 episodes of DS9 twice before I rewatch INTO DARKNESS.

You are FAR better off watching DS9.

(By the way, Section 31 was used a couple times in season 4 of ENTERPRISE. You could check those out.)

 

Well, on individual TV episodes Section 31 will almost inevitably be antagonists, simply because dramatically, they’re more interesting that way. Any story where they logically could be doing some good, well, there’s no real story difference between that and just having Starfleet do the same thing, so usually we’ll just do the latter.

 

While I know I am in the minority for liking Into Darkness, it's use of Section 31 is far more interesting in it's connection with the "bad admiral" trope and black ops. So, as far as Section 31 goes it's a good demonstration.

But, yes, DS9 is the better bet to see it in use originally and the moral ambiguity it brought.

 

STID is not only the Bad Admiral trope writ large, it also supposes that a ship the size and power of whatever that Thing was can be built AND crewed in absolute secrecy. It is all of the idiocy of all of the conspiracy theories it is based on AND it leads in a fairly straight line to hundreds of Star Destroyers that nobody knew about with a secretly resurrected Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker.

Also Scotty is totes OK with spacing someone as long as they are a "contractor".

I will watch an Alternative Factor / Children Shall Lead double feature before Into Darkness.

 

Oh noosss....

Sorry I don't have an issue with this.

 

I was home sick last week and watched Nemesis for the first time since seeing it in a theater 20 years ago (with smartasses being smartassy).

It's... not unwatchable. In fact, I think the first half is pretty decent. The TNG folks work as an ensemble and are fun & funny. Shinzon is charismatic and knows how to hold attention well in a scene (I think that Hardy guy might have a future). Mysteries are mysterious.

Then it all sort of... became an action movie with Picard and Data and a madman villain. BTDT.

I heard they left about 1/3 of the movie on the cutting room floor (and I can believe it) but it still seemed like 2 different movies.

The biggest thing I notice with all 4 TNG movies is they could (should?) have been better.

I'm glad I saw them again. I don't feel I wasted time or anything like that. But something McFadden said in a recent interview came back to me: this cast works best as a group (not as One or Two Stars and a Backup Cast). I truly hope Picard S3 gets that right.

 

I say publically accepted because that's what was on DSC, so presumably that's what the S31 series will be if it happens.

If they stuck to your blueprint here I'd be fine with that. I still think it makes more sense for them to never be officially acknowledged at all, but that would be a reasonable compromise.

As someone else said, Nechayev isn't a good example given the extreme nature and aggressiveness of the Borg as well as that fact that SF at that point had no other possible hope for defending themselves and not even the slightest indication that it was even at all possible to talk to the Borg.

And Ross fits what I'm talking about just fine, because his actions were never public. I'm not saying the Federation has no bad or questionable actors in its upper ranks. It clearly does and I have no objection to that being explored. The point is that the Federation is a symbol which is important to the story and needs to be preserved in that symbolism. So while such people can exist in the story, they need to face major backlash if their actions are clearly public. Not because every higher officer in Starfleet 'must' disagree with them but because the weight of opinion from the majority of Starfleet and the Federation wouldn't allow otherwise.

 

But there was no clear public acceptance in Discovery either. They were more open but their presentation was also treated as an intelligence division, not an "at all costs, morally dubious," organization. Which goes to my idea of they present in a possible legitimate way, but act out more suspect. But I don't see the public knowledge thing.

 

Pike didn't trust S31 from the very beginning. He must have heard stories.

 

You’d watch The Storyteller TEN times?!

 

That episode is not great, but it definitely isn't the bottom of the barrel. (My wife thought it was boring, though.)

I have already made my list of the worst 5 episodes..

5. "LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN..."
4. "THE RECKONING"
3. "PRODIGAL DAUGHTER"
2. "THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOAK"
1. "PROFIT AND LACE" (worst episode)

 

"Let He Who Is Without Sin..." is bad even by Religious Right entertainment standards.

 

It is a terrible episode. It's only good scene is Worf telling Dax about his childhood soccer scenario, which explains the why of Worf.

That's the reason I placed it 5th instead of 4th. (Ben's decision to potentially sacrifice his son does far greater damage to his character.)

 

This is true (Even though I think Profit and Lace is worse), but I also liked Vanessa Williams.

Maybe that in itself is a controversial opinion.

 

There are several religious movies I'd watch before it.

 

Indeed. Each and every one of them falls short somehow.

I think part of that is a lack of connection between them. TWoK, TSfS and TVH hang together as a trilogy. Events from one bleed into the next in a way that feels like it matters.

There’s no sense of continuity between any of the TNG movies, an egregious example being that they don’t know what to do with Data’s emotion chip beyond GEN.

I think they are a shitshow from start to finish. Even the much lauded FC leaves me feeling empty.

Maybe the lesson is, don’t let the TV people try to write your movies.

 

Oh! I got one! Generations is the best looking TNG movie. Never in seven years did the Enterprise D feel so real.