What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Captain Captain

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    Insurrection tries to be like First Contact, but the Son'a aren't compelling villains like the Borg. Neither is that ass Dougherty. The Ba'ku are milquetoast human-like aliens who make the Ocampa seem like badasses by comparison. There's nothing notable to them other than their planet, which isn't even their original homeworld. The issue of forced relocation has been done better on the TV shows like DS9, so has the idea of eternal youth. It's all just very meh. I mean its better than Nemesis, so it has that going for it.
     
  2. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Yes, we could have managed that fine without the digression into armchair cultural criticism altogether.
     
  3. Crazy 4 XmasLights

    Crazy 4 XmasLights Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My issue with "Insurrection" was that I didn't agree with Picard's position. Given a choice between relocating 600 people and turning their back on something that could benefit billions, I know what I would choose.
     
  4. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    @Oddish

    I’m sorry mate. I made a gag, then you made a gag and now everyone’s on your back…

    I thought it was funny anyway. Peace out.
     
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  5. Crazy 4 XmasLights

    Crazy 4 XmasLights Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don't worry about it. This was the result of a previously existing difference of opinion. Totally not your fault.
     
  6. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    Nemesis isn’t good, but I’ll take it over Insurrection.

    Insurrection just makes me cringe - the dialogue is horrible, the humour is lame and it feels like the action sequences are on a timetable - oh, we’ve had X minutes of dialogue, let’s throw in some bad CGI and slow-motion explosions. It’s all so bland and soft; just the very worst of TNG, stretched out over two hours.

    I was so embarrassed to have brought relatives to see it that I spent most of the time wanting to sink into the floor. I envied the man (one of only a handful of others in the cinema) who walked out half-way through and never returned.
     
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  7. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    Generations has it’s moments. First Contact is certainly slick and if you like the Borg and Brent Spiner with the brakes off then you’re golden. Nemesis has amusement value for me in bizarrely featuring a young Tom Hardy.

    Insurrection is just really boring. It doesn’t feel like a TNG episode to me. It feels like a rejected TNG script.

    No regular TNG characters have a discernible, meaningful or consistent development in the movies. Many characters are sidelined completely or in Picard’s case at times, written in a way that is counter to his established character.

    TWOK, TSFS, TVH… ST09, ID and BEY… there’s a sense of these movies being a trilogy. Watching the second and third movies one can feel character growth, world building and strong narrative themes. In the case of TOS movies, mortality, death, loss, a refusal to give up and a refusal to grow up. For Kelvin movies there are recurrent themes of fatherhood, parenthood, home, growing up with characters often tending to learn from falling into hubristic traps.

    TNG Movies:

    A theatre stage. Dark.

    Data enters stage left wearing a barber-shop quartet outfit complete with cute little straw hat. A spotlight follows him to the centre of the stage.

    Data: (sings) I put my emotion chip in, emotion chip out, in, out, in, out and shake it all about, I do the hokey-kokey and I turn around…

    Picard enters stage right in an identical outfit to Data. He is again followed by a spotlight which converges centre-stage with Data’s.

    Picard: (sings with a wink to the camera) … and that’s what it’s all about!

    Lights up. The rest of the cast are revealed on stage, gathered tidily on a podium. Riker is doing that thing with his leg. All wear identical outfits to Data and Picard.

    All: Oh, hokey kokey kokey! Oh, hokey kokey kokey! Oh hokey kokey kokey!

    Q appears in an identical outfit and jovially puts his arms around the shoulders of Picard and Data.

    Q: Knees bent, arms stretched, ra-ra-ra!

    x4
     
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  8. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    I would say Insurrection is dead last on the list for me, followed by Nemesis. Neither script should have been approved. My opinion of TFF has increased over time, as I can see the good movie stuck inside of it wishing to come out. It has its good points. Better soundtrack and effects might have saved the movie (edit, made a specific statement about the box office, and I don't know and I don't feel like having one of the local fact-stasi give me the details). Its fun to watch, if you haven't seen it in awhile. Generations has good scenes, a decent plot, outstanding cast and it doesn't interest me very much and never really has. Not sure why.
     
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  9. Crazy 4 XmasLights

    Crazy 4 XmasLights Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If it involves Data and singing barbershop, I'm totally all in.
     
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  10. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nemesis is a much better film than Insurrection. At least things happen in NEM and it tried to be a great, exciting film.

    INS literally aimed to be light and mediocre…and the fact that it exceeded those criteria by a wide margin make it Trek’s only unforgivable box office outing for me. Absolutely embarrassing and dreadful, and more disposable than 75% of the 1-hour television shows (each with 1/40th the budget) it was based on.

    Franchise low-mark.
     
  11. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...We hope...

    Plus the villain's "plan" is profoundly stupid.

    So does a root canal...

    Even worse: they were a small agrarian colony that had abandoned technology. If the Federation built a massive complex on the other side of the planet, they would know...how? Star Trek often forgets how large planets are...
     
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  12. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    Yet they knew what was wrong with Data and how to fix him. It, to me anyway, seemed they left behind their dependence on technology, but still had it and how to recreate it if the need arose. Even if Starfleet took the long way around, or waited until the their base was on the night side to hide their approach or they couldn't be seen because they were on the opposite side of the planet, sooner or later, someone on the planet would notice, or they would explore their planet and find the base. A bad crop. drastic meteorological disturbances or change (a volcano or earthquakes) in their area could cause them to pull out that old tech to look for a new part of the planet to live on and find the base.

    And regardless of how they got to the planet it is their home. The Federation know the people are capable of warp travel, but choose not to use it, meaning the Federation by its own code of conduct would have to ask to make a base.
     
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  13. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They have technical know-how, sure, but they weren't using it and likely wouldn't be scanning for ships.

    The Federation sure, but the rogue admiral was being needlessly evil.
     
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  14. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    But if they had to move or just chose to explore they could use their technical know-how to recreate, or just pull out their tech to make the journey safe and either see the ships (or stars that come and go if they get far enough away to be on the side of the planet that is dark.

    Also, as the leader of the Ba'Ku said "Our technological abilities are not apparent because we have chosen not to employ them in our daily lives." So they have the tech, but don't use it as regularly as the Federation. I and others have made the mistake to say they have abandoned their technology, but they haven't. Now that they know that the Federation is around, and it would seem logical that word would get out about their planets regenerative abilities, they may decide to bring out that scanning technology they used when they once explored the stars. They may not have been scanning the skies before which allowed the Sona to approach, now it would be in their best interests to scan the skies.
     
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  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder whether they also pass the know-how of high tech on to younger generations or it's simply the remnants of their previous life.

    After all, they don't age, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're immortal in the absolute sense. They might still end up dead after falling from a mountain cliff or drowning or some rampant infectious disease or what-have-you, and valuable (even if seldomly used) knowledge might be lost that way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  16. Crazy 4 XmasLights

    Crazy 4 XmasLights Vice Admiral Admiral

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    People often confuse "asenescent" (doesn't age) with "immortal" (cannot die period). We actually have lifeforms that are asenescent, but as far as I know, everything on this planet can be killed some way or other.
     
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  17. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The adult Ba'ku may have retained the technical knowledge needed in order to attempt a repair on Data, but I wonder what tech would have been left behind after the Son'a staged their exodus a century prior. Was there a super secret warehouse full of forbidden tech which was still available to the Ba'ku once the duckblind went down? Where was it hidden in the village? The Son'a must have taken space ships, but what else?

    It makes me wonder if the Ba'ku used the tech in the Starfleet base to attempt their repairs on Data and were just referring to their scientific knowledge in the quoted dialogue.
     
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  18. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TUC actually didn't refer to the Enterprise-A as the flagship, either in dialog or on any charts or displays visible to the viewer. They never stated that the ship had any special level of status within the fleet.

    Kor
     
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  19. Vale

    Vale Guest

    The only Enterprise explicitly referred to as a flagship on-screen throughout all of TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY (and associated movies) was the Enterprise-D.
     
  20. Holly-deck One

    Holly-deck One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Very true. The only reason the Enterprise-A was the one escorting Gorkon's ship was because Spock volunteered the ship and crew.