What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    .... but it's not a big preplanned event - they just happened to get cancelled
     
  2. YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly

    YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly Lieutenant Junior Grade Newbie

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    I like your “biggest insult” vs “worse episode” distinction. Part of why I greet TATV with a shrug is that I stopped watching ENT in early Season 3 after contracting a serious case Trek burnout compounded by law school. I didn’t have the emotional investment to be insulted and I like watching Jonathan Frakes on screen. (I never said it was good, just that I don’t hate it the way that other fans (who all probably far more invested in ENT) do
     
  3. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    count me in there - i happened to like enterprise
     
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  4. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, ENT got screwed. First by UPN and then by Berman and Braga's awful idea for a "Valentine" to the fans to wrap everything up in a nice bow.

    It wasn't intentional but a slap in the face is still a slap in the face.
     
  5. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    the kind of valentine spats colombo is known for
     
  6. YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly

    YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly Lieutenant Junior Grade Newbie

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    Which is a damn shame because Season 4 turned out to be so good otherwise.
     
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  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree that "PRECIOUS CARGO" is an objectively worse episode than "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES...". I would count "Shades Of Gray" and "Sub Rosa" as worse, too... though the former can be excused somewhat because of the budget and strike situation that season 2 faced. (Plus, the idea that your memories can be used to actually fight off a parasite is an interesting premise... just horribly executed.)

    But TATV gets my vote as THE worst episode in the franchise because it focused on lead characters from a show that had already been off the air for over 10 YEARS!

    At least the bad episodes of other series were about characters from their own show.

    (I will concede that TATV might have been a better episode if it was made as anything other than a series finale.)
     
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  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "TATV..." is definitely amongst my Worst Episodes of Trek Ever. And ranks up there in the numbers.
     
  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Sub Rosa" is objective hot garbage whose only redeeming quality is the jokes and memes that came from it. It's not my worst Trek episode ever but if there's a Thunderdome throwdown for the Bottom 10 Episodes of Anything Star Trek "Sub Rosa" would suplex several of the others.

     
  10. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    there's also the small point about killing off trip - i have no problem with killing off regulars but you don't do that in a series finale unless there's a white whale involved
     
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  11. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Trip died for no good reason. I know what defenders of the script will say. "He saved his friend the Captain so he could go on to make the Federation Charter Speech." He still died for no good reason. Anyone else on Enterprise could have sacrificed themselves to stop the alien intruders looking for Shran and his daughter and even with a crew this small compared to future starships it carried security officers. Trip was sacrificed because Berman and Braga couldn't think of anything better and felt it would grab the viewers' attention.

    It did alright, just not in a good way.
     
  12. 1001001

    1001001 Ready for the Laughing Gas Moderator

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    It's kind of amazing how badly TPTB misread their own fandom on this one.

    I mean, they truly believed this was a "Valentine to the fans". They did not set out to make the worst finale in Star Trek history.
     
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. No malice. They just had a terrible idea and doubled down on it.
     
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  14. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm genuinely surprised anyone can look at Precious Cargo and think "This is signficantly worse than the six episodes that came before it". It's not my favourite story, but it's not what I'd pick as the nadir of season 2.
     
  15. YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly

    YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly Lieutenant Junior Grade Newbie

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    Certainly this stands as a strong data point (among many) that B&B were past the point of severe creative burnout by the end of ENT.
     
  16. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Two counterpoints:

    1 Using the term humans have always used to describe just themselves and nothing else as a catch-all for all intelligent life would be just as racist and kind of non-sensical since Humans are far younger/newer to the interstellar scene than most other major species.

    2 Using the term Terran to refer specifically to homo sapiens and no other species is racist towards Dolphins and Humpback Whales. Humans (in Star Trek) aren't intended to be the only intelligent lifeform to have evolved on Terra.
     
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  17. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That bow was made of stale linguine covered in mold.
     
  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A better way to have Trip die would be if he'd been saving the ship from a Romulan Attack during a decisive battle that ended The Romulan War. "These Are the Voyages" could have shown what led to the founding of the Federation. Riker and Troi could've been looking at highlights, basically showing us what Seasons 5-7 would've looked like.

    If you need a story reason: Riker's a History Buff, he has a particular interest in the 22nd Century, and so one of the teachers aboard the Enterprise has Riker and Troi speak to their class, but the kids don't care, they're bored, they're a stand-in for the fans who didn't want a prequel, so Riker decides to take them to the Holodeck to see and then that makes the kids interested. By the time Riker and Troi finish showing all these kids the highlights, they want to know more.
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I still maintain that "Code of Honor" is the worst Star Trek episode ever made because it's the only one that could have been written by the P.R. department of the Ku Klux Klan. "Planet of the scary black men who want to take our white women from us!"
     
  20. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    1. i didn't say use it, i said enlarge the term, which means set everybody nominally on an equal footing - insisting on humans for us while seeing terrans as derogatory and calling anybody else after the place they come from is racist by analogy
    2. i didn't say that either - obviously my definition of human encloses the humbacks 'talking' to spock and the hadrosauri talking to chakotay and whatever sentient species evolves anywhere (that includes terra/earth) - most likely what we call scientific names would be a little different but that's it
    ... btw calling those hadrosauri saureans is more than a bit blunt - why would they call themselves that? it's a name we gave them after they had packed up and went out there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022