What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. maneth

    maneth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Location:
    maneth
    Okay, here goes...
    I like Tuvix. I certainly prefer him to Neelix, and I'd be willing to sacrifice one of my favorite VGR characters, Tuvok, to keep him.
    I can't stand Q and I only like him in the one episode where he was briefly mortal.
    Space Seed is one of my least favorite TOS episodes, I detest Khan to the point that I like Nemesis more than I like TWOK.
    I think Seven and the Borg Queen ruined the Borg as villains.
    I don't think it was necessary to get rid of Kes to bring in Seven. I resented the change so much that I almost gave up watching the show in the 4th season.
     
    Bry_Sinclair likes this.
  2. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    I'm kind of with you - I disliked Tuvok intensely and Neelix was only bearable due to the skill of Ethan Phillips - Tuvix was an improvement !
     
    maneth likes this.
  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Shetland
    Q never dared challenge The Sisko again.

    Thankfully that dreadful character would never be seen in DS9 again but would go on to plague VOY.

    That's right, I said it. Q was an awful.
     
    maneth likes this.
  4. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Q never bothered with the childish, easily provoked and uninteresting Sisko ever again. As he said, Picard had repartee, Sisko did not.
    In fact, Sisko was more deserving of the "eat any good book lately" retort than Worf. Worf's "die" was witty.
     
    Admiral Archer likes this.
  5. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Controversial opinion: Generations is a very good Star Trek film, and very much underrated. While I would liked to have seen the Enterprise-D survive to at least First Contact, and while I wish Jerry Goldsmith had at least contributed to the end credits theme of the film to add a sense of continuity between this film and the other TNG films, Generations actually isn't a bad Star Trek movie, or even a mediocre one. It is practically the perfect TNG movie, as much of what made the series so iconic is present, and I will just go ahead and say it: Pcard and Kirk were handled wonderfully, and both were portrayed accurately. Also, I thought Kirk's arc in the film was very fitting, and handled extremely well. Here is a man who rode off into the sunset with his crew in the previous movie, so having him do the same in this one would be redundant. Whereas Picard still has a long career ahead of him and is in the prime of his life, Kirk's days as an adventurer were over, and he simply had to die for the whole mortality play to work, and the theme that it's what we do in our short time in this universe that matters most. Also, in my head canon, Kirk's body was never recovered from Veridian III; Picard just didn't mention him in the debriefing, and as far as history is concerned, Kirk still died 78 years earlier saving the Enterprise-B. That makes sense to me.
     
  6. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2001
    Agreed.

    While it still does feel like a movie, you can still sense the TV mentality all throughout it, which is understandable, considering it's basically the entire production staff from the series. The Enterprise crash aside, they don't stray too far into the "HEY WE ARE NOW DOING A MOVIE" territory as far as overblown special effects or things you can only do in a movie. To me, Generations feels like a weird melding of both television and a movie.

    I still think the Enterprise crash sequence is one of the most groundbreaking special effects sequences in all of Star Trek. To this day I'm still amazed and how good it looks. I watch that scene and I believe every single second of it; that a massive spaceship crashed onto a planet.
     
    Vger23 and Admiral Archer like this.
  7. TrekE

    TrekE Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2016
    User name checks out.

    Sorry for chiming in so late, but I just came across this thread and got to your post. Wow.

    As for my controversial opinions:

    - Nemesis is the best TNG film

    - Quark is the best character in the franchise

    - The Founders’ Great Link is really just a planet-wide orgy
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    As if you invented the ad hominem.
     
  9. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Aside from the Q part, I mostly agree with all that. Though I wouldn't say it's 7 & the Borg Queen, more specific episodes of VOY (Unimatrix Zero and Dark Frontier). The Borg Queen worked well in First Contact.
     
  10. maneth

    maneth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Location:
    maneth
    Agreed. FC is my favorite Trek movie.
     
    Not A Dominion Spy likes this.
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    I have to agree that, to me, the Borg Queen ruined the Borg (or rather was the beginning of the Borg being ruined). To me she didn't make sense for them. Instead of being alien and unknowable they became a Space Zombie Ant Colony, complete with an Ant Queen who, of course, has tits on her mechanically constructed body.
    I think First Contact would have worked perfectly well with the way the Borg were portrayed until then. And if they really wanted to give the villain a face so to say, why not have the Borg construct a second Locutus? If they want her to be female, just make it a Locuta.
     
  12. nahsk

    nahsk Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Location:
    Alpha Quadrant
    I dislike Riker.

    Remove Jim from any episode that wasn't explicitly Riker-centric and you get the same result. Like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    His cadence, his attitude, his sycophantic deference to JLP.

    I just...can live without him.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Buffer Time
    The books "Federation" and "Strangers from the Sky" are both more interesting stories that deal with the creation of warp drive and first contact than Star Trek: First Contact.
     
    Tommy D and JonnyQuest037 like this.
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Not hard to do since that film is rather mediocre.
     
  15. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Shetland
    James T. Kirk was a total dick, who is pretty much insufferable by the movies.
     
  16. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    It's the whole trio dynamic: had to contrast Kirk and McCoy from Spock, so they often act like dicks. McCoy in particular.
    It's a situation where one person can die or thousands (including the one), Spock chooses the one and McCoy (sometimes Kirk) rants at him about how heartless he is.
    Honestly, even though he's supposed to be an alien, usually Spock is the most reliable character of the 3 in terms of behaviour.

    Kirk has the same behaviour, towards all the bridge crew: "I can't know the answer to that question." "ANSWER IT ANYWAY! I WANT ANSWERS!"
    If one of their officers says X can't be done or Y is unknown, Picard and Janeway don't start shouting, they start suggesting alternatives to do X or learn about Y or asking others for alternatives. Even Sisko manages more composure and keeps a cooler head.

    Worst example is in the Tholian Web. McCoy acts like a downright lunatic in that episode. He accuses Spock of staying to claim command of the ship, but then points out the weakness in his own argument (if Spock had ordered leaving, he'd have ensured that result) without ever connecting the dots.
    Though he had the excuse of the effect of that area of space on his brain.
     
    ThreeEdgedSword and Qonundrum like this.
  17. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Location:
    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    Kirk did go off the rocker in times of stress and hated it especially when Spock didn't put out the needed answers.

    Janeway and Picard did do it better (Janeway more so). Sisko was more often in harsher situations when immediate need was necessary...

    Tholian Web started out great enough but (from recollection) McCoy used both sides of the dichotomy against Spock (involving the order to review Kirk's conveniently saved message) and always in a fit of pique rather than to get him to think, especially when Spock was trying to save Kirk's hide than to gleefully zip away to become Captain (Riker too did the same thing, to save the Captain as opposed to leave and get a captaincy and for his favorite vessel, unlike Spock who wasn't interested as such.)

    Emphasis added:

    versus

    Dang. All these episodes where Spock wants to take over, most notably in "The Enterprise Incident", and now this happens. Shame he doesn't have a mustache to twirl, though Spock isn't looking for glory and even McCoy should have clocked that fact.

    But as Spock also said the following as retort in a later exchange:

    ...which is exactly the point: They're in an area of space mucking up their brain chemistries and acting irrational. Spock's dialogue is incredibly subtle and it's hard not to side with McCoy, but Spock has a consistency and in part because the space they're in hasn't affected him... yet.

    On edit: I forgot to mention I hadn't realized that point of the spatial brainadope being the factor behind Bones' going all over the map until a few minutes later. :)

    Of course, McCoy then collapses, thus heightening the sense of urgency and danger to all in the episode...


    Kirk also went to admonishing characters for having bleeding hearts (Prof Crater) to becoming one (Alexander, others). Why he didn't take aboard his newfound love Shahna remains a mystery but he did seem to imply she'd make a great leader and the thralls working with the providers to build a better future together.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  18. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    I disagree. Killing off Kirk because somehow his story was over and to accomplish some form of "passing the torch" was un-necessary and was a poor use of the character. We never had to see Kirk subsequently, but leave him alive in our memories.
    Without Indy, how did the Ark get to the United States?

    Without Indy the last we saw of the Ark it was just sitting with it's lid on, surrounded by bodies, a few miles from a Nazi base. The base commander likely knew that the Ark was going to be opened, and the Ark would have been retrieved, sent to Germany, with as much of a report as the commander could have provided.

    The Germans may or may not have figure a way to use the Ark to their benefit.

    It was Indy that got the Ark off that island and away from the Reich.
    One of the nice things in TNG's first season was Riker's projection of career ambition. Like the Enterprise and Picard were just stepping stones to better things. This is something that was loss in later seasons.
     
  19. Jason_Adank

    Jason_Adank Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2020
    Neelix was the most annoying Star Trek character ever. Whenever I watch that series on Netflix, I always skip those episodes. Everything I think of him, Annoyager comes to mind.
     
  20. 1001001

    1001001 Inventor of the Air Force Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    A Plane Loaded with Thugs
    I found half the cast of DS9 more annoying than Neelix.
     
    Admiral Archer likes this.