What Are the Ways the Star Wars Prequels Could Be Improved???

[fireproof78]

But if it wasn't for the internet, you likely wouldn't know. And on the current release, you cannot see anything. You would have to stop and go frame by frame to even tell.

Moreover, who's to say Greedo didn't shoot? In the original cut, you don't see the shot at all; just a bunch of smoke. Greedo's head still flops down on the table dead in any version.

Please explain how Han's character is changed...

There is no impact on the wall behind Han, so, no Greedo didn't shoot in the original cut. Secondly, I knew about long before I was on the Internet, so please stop tossing that out as the only reason.

Finally, it shifts Han's character from a rogue and a scoundrel, who has no scruples about killing if necessary, as he was already prepping as the conversation went on. He's the rogue that actually gets won over to the idealism of Luke's side.

It's not just the outcome of the fight, but the larger implication of Han's character, and his fit in the overall narrative. And bear in mind, that in the 70s, the rogue character of Han would be the viewpoint that Luke would have been convinced of being right, and instead, it's the other way around.

There's a lot of significance to it, that isn't readily apparent.

But, you know, it's just the Internet

 

[Tuskin38]

Also the fact George has said why he changed it, and it was to change Han's character.

 

[cooleddie74]

And much like digitally removing the guns from the hands of the federal agents in E.T. and replacing them with walkie talkies the Greedo Shooting First edit was a product of a period in recent history when filmmakers became obnoxiously obsessed with not offending younger audiences with images of violence. For his own reasons George thought that 1977 Han was too cold blooded and willing to kill first and that didn't reflect his own ideas for what younger audiences should have been exposed to in 1997, 2004 and 2011.

I don't doubt that his heart was in the right place, but it was just a stupid decision and it has negatively affected the character of Han Solo and left his original concept of a quick-on-the-trigger pirate in the dustbin.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Han didn't just shoot first- he was the only one to shoot!

 

[JD]

I would disagree on both counts. Han not shooting first fundamentally softens the character's presentation. It would be just as significant if they added in his girlfriend scene back to the edit as well.

Girlfriend scene?

 

[Prax]

And much like digitally removing the guns from the hands of the federal agents in E.T. and replacing them with walkie talkies the Greedo Shooting First edit was a product of a period in recent history when filmmakers became obnoxiously obsessed with not offending younger audiences with images of violence. For his own reasons George thought that 1977 Han was too cold blooded and willing to kill first and that didn't reflect his own ideas for what younger audiences should have been exposed to in 1997, 2004 and 2011.

I don't doubt that his heart was in the right place, but it was just a stupid decision and it has negatively affected the character of Han Solo and left his original concept of a quick-on-the-trigger pirate in the dustbin.

If that's the case then we can all feel at ease that he made a compromise with fans in the definitive version.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But if it wasn't for the internet, you likely wouldn't know. And on the current release, you cannot see anything. You would have to stop and go frame by frame to even tell.

Wrong, so wrong.

Moreover, who's to say Greedo didn't shoot? In the original cut, you don't see the shot at all; just a bunch of smoke. Greedo's head still flops down on the table dead in any version.

 

[Prax]

Han isn't necessarily the cold blooded smuggler you assume him to be. In the novelization, Obi-Wan senses that Han has a heart of Gold and is putting up a tough-guy front.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Girlfriend scene?

Yeah. Han was actually in the Cantina during the Ben Kenobi vs. Thugs brawl, sitting in a corner alcove, making out with a girl played by Jenny Cresswell (fans/LFL have since given her character that first name). You can see her in the disastrous first rough cut of the Cantina scene.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Han isn't necessarily the cold blooded smuggler you assume him to be. In the novelization, Obi-Wan senses that Han has a heart of Gold and is putting up a tough-guy front.

Han being a mercenary was a theme hit repeatedly until the climax, like four times, five if you count the scene with Jabba. Han was going to split with the money right up until his heart told him to do the better thing. That's character growth, by definition.

 

[Prax]

There's nothing scoundrelish about taking his money and leaving. He wanted to pay his debts. He didn't want to be killed or lose his livelihood, but he did feel guilty about not helping Luke and Leia the whole time.

However the Greedo scene plays out, Han is still just defending himself. And you can't tell me that you can see what's going on in the current version of the film. I believe it's a single frame. That's about .3% of a second.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Agreement isn't in the offing. I've said my piece.

 

[fireproof78]

If that's the case then we can all feel at ease that he made a compromise with fans in the definitive version.

He decided to retcon it because of his own change in POV.

Regardless, it still changes the character.

Yeah. Han was actually in the Cantina during the Ben Kenobi vs. Thugs brawl, sitting in a corner alcove, making out with a girl played by Jenny Cresswell (fans/LFL have since given her character that first name). You can see her in the disastrous first rough cut of the Cantina scene.

Thank you for the clip.

 

[LJones41]

He decided to retcon it because of his own change in POV.

Regardless, it still changes the character.

I don't think so, There was a later scene in the movie in which Han refused to help Luke save Leia from execution aboard the Death Star, until he was promised with a reward.

 

[JD]

Yeah. Han was actually in the Cantina during the Ben Kenobi vs. Thugs brawl, sitting in a corner alcove, making out with a girl played by Jenny Cresswell (fans/LFL have since given her character that first name). You can see her in the disastrous first rough cut of the Cantina scene.

Interesting, I've never seen that before. The final edit in the actual movie was definitely better, which does tend to be the case in these situations.
I always feel bad for the actors whose one and only scene ends up cut.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think so, There was a later scene in the movie in which Han refused to help Luke save Leia from execution aboard the Death Star, until he was promised with a reward.

I do think so.

Han has a mercenary streak throughout, but killing Greedo is also demonstrating exactly what kind of man he was. Is very much arcehtypical of a rogue type character:

The qualities that define these characters are largely negative ones – they appear appear amoral, motivated primarily by greed and personal gain, have a tendency to push the world away and appear unwilling to form real relationships with other people. They have serious trust issues. Over the course of their respective films, however, these characters break down the mental walls which keep them from fully participating in society.

Instead of firing in self-defense, which, the audience doesn't know that Greedo would kill Han, Han kills him without any chance of more parley. He ends a life with no more of a thought that killing a fly. It's part of the rogue anti-hero character archetype.

And, yes, I do understand that GL is allowed to tell this story how he wants to, and the tale of these characters is his to tell. That said, it still changes the character, even slightly, from the original portrayal. YMMV on how much it matters.

 

[Jayson1]

If making Greedo shot first isn't about changing the Han Solo character then what was the point of even changing this scene at all?

Jason

 

[cooleddie74]

And then there is the conundrum of the Tonnika Sisters, which is largely cleared up with most of the lingering mysteries resolved by this recent fan interview of the surviving actress of the two who played them.

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[CorporalCaptain]

And then there is the conundrum of the Tonnika Sisters, which is largely cleared up with most of the lingering mysteries resolved by this recent fan interview of the surviving actress of the two who played them.

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That's outstanding, @cooleddie74. Thank you.

I don't doubt Angela Staines's claim of being on Space: 1999 for one second, but there are some issues.

The episode that Staines describes is "Earthbound." The Catacombs entry for that episode is here and their screencaps are here. This is the episode with Christopher Lee with the costumes that Staines describes. It is widely know that Christine Hewett played one of the aliens (larger image). @cooleddie74, this is not my wheelhouse, but could you (or anybody) confirm by looking at the image that this is indeed the same Christine Hewett that played one of the Tonnika Sisters?

The main issue is that it is not widely known who played all of the aliens (Kaldorians) in "Earthbound." There were six aliens altogether, including the one played by Lee. Lee was credited on screen, but the rest of the players were not. One was accidentally killed early in the episode while still in hibernation, so only five were seen walking around, three men, including Lee, and two women. The women are in red and the men are in green. The Catacombs names only two of the other players, Rhonda Parker of The Avengers (larger image and another larger image of the same alien from the screencaps section)and Christine Hewett, both women. The two other men of the five who weren't killed are unknown.

So, if you're still following the bouncing ball (), Angela Staines is not widely known to have played in the episode, and by the process of elimination (assuming that the Catacombs is correct about Rhonda Parker), Staines could only have played the Kaldorian who was accidentally killed while still in hibernation. That would be this one. Does that look like Staines to you, @cooleddie74, or anybody, for that matter?

Myself, I have no idea, but I'm wondering whether the Catacombs is wrong about Rhonda Parker and that that was actually the female alien played by Staines who survived instead. To me, Parker looks more like the one killed in hibernation than Staines does, but that's an awful angle to make a determination from. Plus, Staines claimed she was there for three weeks, I believe, if I heard the podcast right; they would not have needed her for that long if she had been killed off.

Thoughts?

 

[LJones41]

Han has a mercenary streak throughout, but killing Greedo is also demonstrating exactly what kind of man he was.

I saw no reason to have a fit over how Lucas changed Han's shooting of Greedo, considering that he had left that scene aboard the Death Star untouched. And frankly, I found Han's willingness to allow Leia be executed for the sake of his own skin a lot more cold-blooded. I guess you and many other fans didn't. I did.


Now, if Disney actually considering "improving" the Prequel movies, then they might as well "improve" the other five or six films. Because none of them are perfect, as far as I'm concerned. But if they don't want to "improve" the OT movies, the ST films and "Rogue One"; then they should leave the PT films the hell alone.