What are the major arguments against ENT by its Naysayers?

[Unicron]

I think the major problem that many people have with Enterprise is that it didn't really take advantage of its unique situation. So much could have been done with the setting and time they were put it in. Instead TNG-style episodes were largely run during the first 2 seasons. A temporal cold war? I think a lot of people were tired of time travel already. But even that could have gone over well if it had been handled correctly. Too few episodes were done on the that long-running arc, and as a result I felt it dragged out.

Season 3 and 4 really did take some risks and do something new. I liked the Xindi arc. Season 4 was one the best seasons of Trek. This new direction came a little too late though, as Enterprise had already bled out too many fans. It's a shame though, as season 5 could have been spectacular.

I agree. ENT certainly wasn't a completely awful series, but it did miss a lot of the potential that was there. And it's saddening to me, because I think that potential could have led to some good or perhaps even great stories. I'm not of the opinion that just because a prequel fails, the prequel concept is entirely bad. It's no different in failing to meet the standards of the original than a bad sequel is.

 

[Pensive]

Did I miss where it was officially stated that ENT was supposed to be a "founding of the Federation" series?

 

[JiNX-01]

Part of the problem was that fans (myself included) had our own varied ideas what a prequel series "should" be.

I expected a really primitive ship (in part because of what Spock says about the E-R wars in "Balance of Terror") and much more primitive technology (no transporters or anything resembling shields; just laser hand weapons with one setting -- dead -- and nukes. The shuttlepods would be the only transportation away from the ship. The hull would be really thick and reinforced and they would actually shut airtight doors during battle (like they do in ships and submarines).

I expected the crew to be all human -- certainly no Vulcan science officer as guide, nor a Denobulan Super!Doctor! (for God's sake, hundreds of years in medical advances later McCoy, Crusher, Bashir and The Doctor would each lose more patients that he did! ).

I expected to see from the outset how we met the species who we'd "later" see in TOS (tho' I have no issue with meeting species we never heard of again, either). And of course, the Romulan wars and toward the end of the show's run, establishment of the Federation (or at the very least, some kind of predecessor that clearly points the way).

What saved the show for me was the cast and characters. It was the first time I watched the premiere of a post-TOS series and liked them right off. I didn't have to spend weeks warming up to the crew (and in the case of some people, I never did).

ETA:

Did I miss where it was officially stated that ENT was supposed to be a "founding of the Federation" series?

Uh, no, I don't think so. But because most Trek fans have seen TOS (tho' there are rumors that Rick never watched) and it was established in the series and in the movies that the Federation was founded around the period ENT is set in, we expected a connection between what had gone before and what was going to be done in the new show.

I don't consider that an unreasonable expectation for a series that was -- with or without "Star Trek" in the title -- part of the franchise. It would have made a strong connection with "future" Trek without having to resort to the "franchise finale" of These Ain't The Voyages.

 

[Nebusj]

Did I miss where it was officially stated that ENT was supposed to be a "founding of the Federation" series?

They set it in the decade leading up to the creation of the Federation. If you were to set a TV show in Boston in 1766, would you expect all this stuff leading up to the creation of the United States to be skipped? More, why would you set a TV show in the decade leading up to the Revolutionary War if you weren't going to get into what lead up to the Revolutionary War?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Depends on what you call a "lead up". Enterprise showed the growing relationship between the Vulcans and the Humans. Meetings between the humans and the Andorians. Some run ins with the Klingons and the Romulans. All important to the founding of the Federation.

 

[pookha]

Part of the problem was that fans (myself included) had our own varied ideas what a prequel series "should" be.

I expected a really primitive ship (in part because of what Spock says about the E-R wars in "Balance of Terror").

i think they may be about the address why the romulan war was fought the way it was in the new book .

but to me the tech is of a much lower level in that of trek.
what they did with the hull plating is nothing compared to shields.
the transporter is very primitive and an object of fear through most of the series.

i think we saw just how far behind the tech in this era is to that of tos in mirror when the defiant just easily blew away the other ships.

pensive..
according to some stuff i read berman and braga originally wanted to do more of a birth of the federation show then what we got at first but the studio wanted them to back off.

 

[John O.]

That sucks, because that's precisely what I wanted to see. Whoever at UPN thought that 1960's episodic television was the way to go needed to have their associate's degree in broadcast marketing taken away.

I also would have been a little happier with the what was supposed to be the primitive nature of the Tech if they hadn't changed over their normal torpedos to photonic torpedos like in the second season. I don't know what compelled them to do that, but it would have been cooler to keep what they had.

I also think that one of the ways in which they could have made the tech more advanced, if they thought they needed to in a legitimate way, would be to have had them trade for it. In Pre-Federation days, who's to say we didn't trade transporter technology for shields?

 

[Pensive]

Part of the problem was that fans (myself included) had our own varied ideas what a prequel series "should" be.

And that is what the problem is entirely, imo. I caught ENT reruns on SciFi and was pulled in by the acting and story. I had no expectations, and let the series be what it was--now it's my favourite one. Nearly all the people that dislike this series dislike it because it wasn't what they 'expected' it to be. How unfair!

I will definitely grant that it would be seen as a Federation-esque series, considering the timeline it was set in. But I have never been married to wanting to see every detail of the Romulan/Earth war or Federation-founding payed out. It's really kind of fun to imagine the details yourself

Then again, maybe I'm less of a Trek fan than everyone else lol

 

[Captain X]

Did I miss where it was officially stated that ENT was supposed to be a "founding of the Federation" series?

Yes, you did. Much like with VOY, they put all kinds of stuff out there to get people excited about the show before it started. And, just like VOY, it failed to live up to the premise they set up, namely to show the origin of the Star Trek universe as it was shown to be in the other series. As pookha mentioned, a lot of this was due to studio interference, just as the studio was responsible for the TCW because they wanted the show to be more "futuristic".

They set it in the decade leading up to the creation of the Federation. If you were to set a TV show in Boston in 1766, would you expect all this stuff leading up to the creation of the United States to be skipped? More, why would you set a TV show in the decade leading up to the Revolutionary War if you weren't going to get into what lead up to the Revolutionary War?

There's also that aspect of it. The Federation was founded in 2161. ENT started in 2151, only 10 years before the Federation's founding. To not do anything about that was incredibly weak.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They were figuring on a 7 year run. I doubt they wanted the Federation set up in the first few episodes of Season 1. So they took it slow. Dropped in the Andorians and a few other future UFP members in Season 1 to build an arc that was supposed last 7 years.

 

[JiNX-01]

Part of the problem was that fans (myself included) had our own varied ideas what a prequel series "should" be.

I expected a really primitive ship (in part because of what Spock says about the E-R wars in "Balance of Terror").

i think they may be about the address why the romulan war was fought the way it was in the new book .

Just got my copy, so no spoilers, pleeez!

but to me the tech is of a much lower level in that of trek.
what they did with the hull plating is nothing compared to shields.
the transporter is very primitive and an object of fear through most of the series.

True, hull plating is not a shield, but it sure seems to function as one. As for the transporter, by season 3 the crew is pretty much over that. Archer uses it for his "execution" in Chosen Realm. They beam over with no trepidation to the alien ship in Damage; the Macos beam to and from the weapon to rescue Hoshi. And they beam over to the weapon to destroy it (while being fired upon). In season 4 Archer depends on the transporter to save him when he "ejects" from Cold Station 12. Trip and Malcolm are adrift in space at the end of United when they're simultaneously beamed aboard Enterprise, (which involves converting not just them to energy but their EVA suits, a delicate balancing act if you're counting on having oxygen & warmth throughout the procedure).

i think we saw just how far behind the tech in this era is to that of tos in mirror when the defiant just easily blew away the other ships.

Yup. On the same order of the aircraft carrier Enterprise taking out the Bismarck.

The trouble is they have phasers with stun settings (yeah, they don't call them that but that's what they are). Photonic torpedos. They have a transporter that's more reliable than the one on the NCC-1701! .

 

[Skywalker]

They were figuring on a seven year run, followed by a big movie that would cover at least the end of the Romulan War and the founding of the Federation. This was the major mistake, IMO, in that they put all their eggs in that basket. Plus I kind of remembering reading something about how the network told them, at the beginning, not to feature the Romulans because they were "boring" or something. Can anyone verify that, or am I remembering wrong?

 

[Captain X]

They were figuring on a 7 year run. I doubt they wanted the Federation set up in the first few episodes of Season 1. So they took it slow. Dropped in the Andorians and a few other future UFP members in Season 1 to build an arc that was supposed last 7 years.

There was a distinct lack of any "arc" in the first two seasons. They were doing the same "tried and true" method of having the ship wander aimlessly and come across some random alien of the week that either threatens the ship or who they end up proselytizing to. They even managed to fit a few of those into season 3, when they actually did have a story arc going on. Just meeting the Andorians a few times doesn't constitute setting things up for the founding of the Federation. It introduced them, that's it.

Plus I kind of remembering reading something about how the network told them, at the beginning, not to feature the Romulans because they were "boring" or something. Can anyone verify that, or am I remembering wrong?

That was Braga in one of his interviews. Basically he said that since the Romulans had been done before he thought they should go do other things, hence the Xindi. It's also one of the reasons there's so much antipathy directed at him from the fan-base (or at least those who didn't care much for ENT).

 

[Nerys Myk]

They were figuring on a 7 year run. I doubt they wanted the Federation set up in the first few episodes of Season 1. So they took it slow. Dropped in the Andorians and a few other future UFP members in Season 1 to build an arc that was supposed last 7 years.

There was a distinct lack of any "arc" in the first two seasons. They were doing the same "tried and true" method of having the ship wander aimlessly and come across some random alien of the week that either threatens the ship or who they end up proselytizing to. They even managed to fit a few of those into season 3, when they actually did have a story arc going on. Just meeting the Andorians a few times doesn't constitute setting things up for the founding of the Federation. It introduced them, that's it.

"Wandering aimlessly" is how TOS did it. Nothing wrong with that. When your mission is to see whats out there is kind of what you do. The whole seek out new life and new civilizations, going boldly thing. Still at the same time the foundation for what would become the Federation was being laid. No they didn't erect Neon signs saying "UFP UNDER CONTRUCTION" because that would be silly and unrealistic. They played it more subtle with an "alien of the week" and a couple of story arcs.

 

[Sheliak]

The ship was a tin can; Bakula was a poor choice; and T'Pol was just plain bizarre.

 

[Captain X]

"Wandering aimlessly" is how TOS did it. Nothing wrong with that.

That may have worked as late as say ... 1994, but since then, not so much.

Still at the same time the foundation for what would become the Federation was being laid. No they didn't erect Neon signs saying "UFP UNDER CONTRUCTION" because that would be silly and unrealistic. They played it more subtle with an "alien of the week" and a couple of story arcs.

No they didn't. That would require something like planning, and they didn't have a plan. They introduced the Andorians, but that was it. Setting things up would require more than that, even if it was spaced out (and by spaced out I don't mean an episode or two per season). There never really was much development between Archer and Shran - that dynamic was mostly created by the actors.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Wandering aimlessly" is how TOS did it. Nothing wrong with that.

That may have worked as late as say ... 1994, but since then, not so much.

Still at the same time the foundation for what would become the Federation was being laid. No they didn't erect Neon signs saying "UFP UNDER CONTRUCTION" because that would be silly and unrealistic. They played it more subtle with an "alien of the week" and a couple of story arcs.

No they didn't. That would require something like planning, and they didn't have a plan. They introduced the Andorians, but that was it. Setting things up would require more than that, even if it was spaced out (and by spaced out I don't mean an episode or two per season). There never really was much development between Archer and Shran - that dynamic was mostly created by the actors.

You really have no idea what they "planned" or didn't. Its pure speculation on your part. I see the introduction of the Andorians and the Vulcan/Andorian conflict (which played out over several episodes) as a "plan". Not sure what the relationship between Archer and Shran has to do with anything. Thats falls within the realm of characterization and not subplots/arcs. Though I suppose one could argue that that it was that relationship that mirrored the one between Earth and Andoria. From Enemy to reluctant ally to friends.

The UFP wasnt going to be founded by one ship visiting different different worlds and handing out invitations. Even the level of involvement the Enterprise had is a tad unrealistic. At best it would lay some groundwork for a few species

 

[Captain X]

They didn't plan. They've even admitted as much. Just look at the TCW. They had no idea where they were going with it or even who their main villain was. The DS9 staff pulled stuff out of their fourth point of contact too, they were just a lot better at it, along with character development for that matter.

As for one ship doing it all for the Federation, B&B kind of laid that one for themselves since they insisted on making Archer so instrumental to the founding of the Federation. Otherwise, this perfectly illustrates the weakness of focusing exclusively on a limited number of main characters rather than having a larger ensemble cast. Not to mention the weakness of having the old TOS/TNG format of wandering around aimlessly.

 

[Noname Given]

That sucks, because that's precisely what I wanted to see. Whoever at UPN thought that 1960's episodic television was the way to go needed to have their associate's degree in broadcast marketing taken away.

I also would have been a little happier with the what was supposed to be the primitive nature of the Tech if they hadn't changed over their normal torpedos to photonic torpedos like in the second season. I don't know what compelled them to do that, but it would have been cooler to keep what they had.

I also think that one of the ways in which they could have made the tech more advanced, if they thought they needed to in a legitimate way, would be to have had them trade for it. In Pre-Federation days, who's to say we didn't trade transporter technology for shields?

Just FYI - (and I was a big fan of ENT, it's #2 for me, TOS is still #1); they DIDN'T add the Photon Torpedoes ('Photonic my a$$); until the very last episode of Season Two when they refit the ship in preperation for the Expanse mission.

Also, I generally thought the ship was 'low tech' enough. Hell, TOS had some wdely varying tech inconsistencies like Pike ordering 'TimeWarp Factor 7' like it's no big deal, yet 12 years later (in Arena) BOTH Mr. Spock and Scotty are warning Kirk that a sustained Warp 7 speed will be EXTREMELY dangerous - Scotty stated, "We'll either catch them or we'll blow up."

I also didn't care for the way 'Polorized Hull Plating' essentially became 'Shields' with crewmembers stating effectiveness in a percentage. IMO a few of the scripts got it right (or the way I would have done it) with the characters stating it was either on-line or off-line.

To the Producers credit over the years, they didn't introduce everything TOS had either. They never got a Condition Green, Yellow or Red - it was either 'normal operation; or a 'tactical alert'; which brought the weapons and defense on-line; and Hull Plating was never auto-trigger by the computer or sensors either.

Overall, I thought ENT did a good job - and in the Andorian arc of the 4th season, we got a good combo of a Proto-Federation story that did show why the Romulans probably became motivated to declare war on Earth, since it was Earth's interstellar actions that were starting to unify the races in the area.

YMMV.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They didn't plan. They've even admitted as much. Just look at the TCW. They had no idea where they were going with it or even who their main villain was. The DS9 staff pulled stuff out of their fourth point of contact too, they were just a lot better at it, along with character development for that matter.

As for one ship doing it all for the Federation, B&B kind of laid that one for themselves since they insisted on making Archer so instrumental to the founding of the Federation. Otherwise, this perfectly illustrates the weakness of focusing exclusively on a limited number of main characters rather than having a larger ensemble cast. Not to mention the weakness of having the old TOS/TNG format of wandering around aimlessly.

It's called an open ended plan. You have room for flexibilty and change if needed. YOu dont have to map outr every detail from beginning to end.

Be a TOS fan, I dont see "wandering" as a weakness.