Poll What are the chances of a Kurtzman-era DS9 follow-up series?

[Ometiklan]

With Picard being a TNG follow-up - though more focused on Picard than the whole TNG crew - and with both Prodigy and Picard (via Seven of Nine) providing some follow-up with Voyager, I keep thinking that DS9 (as the perennial middle-child) is a little underserved and should/could get a Kurtzman-era follow-up of its own.

Of course, it could take many forms: a full live-action series, or a limited live-action series. But I think the best potential follow-up show would be a full animated show in the vein of the "animatic/storyboard" graphics we got with the "What We Left Behind" documentary season 8 opener. It has the best of both worlds: can show anything you want in terms of ages of characters/flashbacks, new sets/ships, and won't require any makeup time for the actors, and can be done largely remotely if needed.

So, what do you think the chances are of a DS9 follow-up show? Provided that the show has to be more than just a few character cameos (ala Paris on LDS).

 

[fireproof78]

None and that is my preference. DS9 is one of those things that doesn't need a follow up. It doesn't deserve anything. It is a well told, self-contained, organic story. Let it be.

 

[Ometiklan]

None and that is my preference. DS9 is one of those things that doesn't need a follow up. It doesn't deserve anything. It is a well told, self-contained, organic story. Let it be.

Do you mean by "deserve" that there aren't any hanging threads that "deserve" an answer?

Though I largely agree that there is no big cliffhanger, I would like to see some kind of follow-up on Sisko, and as the "boldly stay right here" series, DS9 is the best show to give us a "state of the Federation" 15-20 years post Nemesis. Which is largely lacking in PIC or LDS.

I would enjoy seeing:
- how is Cardassia doing now? how did they recover? did they change their ways (ala German or Japan post-WWII)?
- what is the larger fallout of the Dominion War on Federation planets?
- what is the status of Romulus/the Romulan diaspora?
- what about the Ferengi under Rom and "modernization"?
- what about anything else from DS9/Bajor/the Federation?

 

[fireproof78]

Do you mean by "deserve" that there aren't any hanging threads that "deserve" an answer?

Yes.

 

[Vger23]

I’m happy with DS9 the way it is and was left.

 

[Orphalesion]

I’m happy with DS9 the way it is and was left.

Agreed, DS9 is one of the most complete narratives in Star Trek, I'd prefer if they never make a direct follow up.

 

[Vger23]

Agreed, DS9 is one of the most complete narratives in Star Trek, I'd prefer if they never make a direct follow up.

I agree. I don't think we need to know what happened to the Breen and whether or not Jake Sisko's writing career ever took off...and if Ezri and Worf are still friends...etc etc etc.

It's better left concluded and closed-looped. Not because I don't like DS9...but because I do.

 

[Orphalesion]

It's better left concluded and closed-looped. Not because I don't like DS9...but because I do.

Same here, it's one of my favourite Star Trek shows, but any direct sequel or continuation...it's would kinda be if somebody tried to write a sequel to the Lord of the Rings.

 

[fireproof78]

It's better left concluded and closed-looped. Not because I don't like DS9...but because I do.

Exactly my feeling as well. Would I like it if they gave me little details and snippets and follow ups? Yeah, but that doesn't make for a good story. That's like me ordering pizza for my entire family of 30+ people and only ordering what I like. I like DS9 as it is. It told a complete story, and it left me wanting more. To revisit it would be to a) miss a lot of the magic from the original and b) cater to my own fan whims. Neither of those things are appealing.

Leave the audience always wanting more.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I think that the writers are completely game for it and even attempted to make a covert pitch in the documentary. It's just a lot of the cast is no longer with us.

I'm down for DS9 with Nana Visitor, though. Maybe they can get Captain Ezri and Doctor Bashir too.

 

[Dukhat]

I was extremely unhappy to see Picard again after not seeing him for the last 18 years. I think they completely ruined his character. So I can’t imagine how I’d feel to see the DS9 crew after almost 25 years. I’m sure I’d be very disappointed with what some 2022 wet-behind-the-ears shithead scriptwriter comes up with.

 

[fireproof78]

I think disappointment is inevitable. There is no way that any writer could live up to the level of fan expectation, especially with the ongoing love that DS9 experiences so many years after the fact.

 

[Lord Garth]

The only thread that was worth following up on was Sisko's promise that he'd be back, put in there because Avery Brooks didn't want the image of a black man abandoning his wife and kid. But since Avery Brooks is definitely NOT returning to acting, that means no Sisko, which would mean he might as well have not returned. You can mention he returned off-screen, but that won't have the same effect.

DS9's story is done. Unlike TNG, almost everything was wrapped up. Bajor didn't join the Federation by the end of DS9, but you can always have a line of dialogue about the subject on Picard or even Discovery.

Plus, and I hate bringing this up but someone has to: what if JMS ever had a change of heart if DS9 actually had a follow-up and decided he should sue? What if he thought, "That's what I should've done last time!"? Especially now that he's rebooting Babylon 5. Whether he'd have a case or not, would anyone at Paramount really want to go through all that?

Elephant in the Room and Speculation Only: I think this could actually be the real reason DS9 hasn't gotten as much attention as TNG and VOY. It exists, but they won't give it as much attention as part of some sort of unofficial, unwritten agreement behind closed doors. "We had a deal!"

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think there's zero chance of a "DS9 R.F.D." series. The only reason we got PIC was that Kurtzman was dying to work with Stewart (in any capacity), and ideas for a new series based around an older Picard eventually evolved from that initial wish.

I could see Kurtzman doing another space station-based show sometime down the road, though, but I don't think it would be a follow-up to DS9 at all. It'd probably be a different station with a different crew, and likely (IMO) a different time period.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Between the DS9 documentary and various beta canon related to the ST ’09 & PIC there are a few thread to go on.

• Vedek Kira Nerys – who still in charge of DS9 - secretly raising an army of Jem’Hadar to be the Bajoran army
• Bajor still not a member of the Federation by 2395
• Ezri Dax captains the USS Emmitt Till (in the novels, she captains the USS Aventine in the 2380s)
• Worf is preparing to succeed Martok as Chancellor (note Worf is supposed to the captain of the Ent-E during PIC)
• Jake Sisko lives in New Orleans and is a successful but isolated writer. His brother is science officer Joseph Yates-Sisko
• Quark is still on the station (note that Quark’s is now a franchise, as seen in PIC on Freecloud
  Spoiler

  (and Lower Decks)
• Garak lives on Bajor
• Molly O Brien in Starfleet
• There is frustration and disappointment that Sisko never returned after 20 years
• Sisko returns (appearing in multiple places at once) and re-finds his humanity
• Section 31 as the villain and plan to destroy the wormhole over their thoughts on religion. They also destroyed the Defiant and killed Captian Nog .Julian Bashir is the head of Section 31.
• The Ferengi Alliance has been expansive under Grand Nagus Rom, according to PIC
• The comic books for the reboot movies had Cardassia as part of the flotilla (including Federation and Klingon ships) that was to rescue Romulan refugees before Hobus went supernova. (This idea was before the destruction of Mars in PIC)
• An unused idea for a sequel TNG film saw Odo as part of a think tank (along with Picard, The Doctor, Archer, Kirk, & Spock) in a Star Trek version of the Avengers (this think tank has never been confirmed in either PIC or the reboot films in regards to dealing with the supernova)
• Plus there was that Bajoran tablet that was featured in the Picard S2 teaser, so we don’t know if DS9 or Sisko will be featured or referenced in S2 or S3 in some capacity
• EDIT: Forgot Jake and Nog's role in The Good That Men Do.

When I look at these threads, I’m okay with Vedek Kira. I’m not sure about her secretly raising a Jem’Hadar army. I’m so fine with Section 31 and Bashir leading it and what their new agenda is. I’m not so sure about Bashir having a role in Nog’s death. And not sure if I would kill off Nog. Why not have him and the Defiant lost in the Gamma Quadrant, like how Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant, because the wormhole was destroyed? Could probably use the destruction of the wormhole as the explanation as to why Sisko never returned as well. And the absence of Odo.

I’m not saying that there’s no merit of following up on DS9 and what became of the characters. But I can see these events being referenced in Discovery (Burnham reading up on history), a half hour Short Trek(various discussion among the Discovery crew discussing history around the time of PIC) and that Georgiou show. A DS9 show does not necessarily have to be made to learn what happened next. I would not expect much beyond a Paramount+ movie anyways, since a DS9 movie was the only thing they never did.

 

[Steve Roby]

Plus, and I hate bringing this up but someone has to: what if JMS ever had a change of heart if DS9 actually had a follow-up and decided he should sue? What if he thought, "That's what I should've done last time!"? Especially now that he's rebooting Babylon 5. Whether he'd have a case or not, would anyone at Paramount really want to go through all that?

Elephant in the Room and Speculation Only: I think this could actually be the real reason DS9 hasn't gotten as much attention as TNG and VOY. It exists, but they won't give it as much attention as part of some sort of unofficial, unwritten agreement behind closed doors. "We had a deal!"

I was with you for the first couple of paragraphs in your post, but these paragraphs, I dunno.

I'd be surprised if, first of all, anyone who actually worked on DS9 ever had much access to any B5 preproduction material. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but I think they were probably capable of coming up with some ideas of their own, and I don't think they would want it to be known that they stole someone else's work. I'd be surprised if anyone at Paramount who saw that material thirty years ago is still in any kind of important position at Paramount or any connection with Star Trek now. The time to sue was thirty years ago. But bear in mind the saying: you can't copyright ideas, only the expression of those ideas. If someone says I'm doing a show about a space station, anyone at all can decide that they're going to do the same thing. But even that doesn't have to happen. Plenty of Star Trek writers have told stories about pitching episodes or novels only to be told that the show was doing that story already. Different people can independently come up with the same idea. Look at Charles Sheffield and Arthur C. Clarke both writing novels about space elevators at the same time. Or look at Chicago Hope and ER. You can list some allegedly suspicious similarities between B5 and DS9, but anyone who actually sits down and watches both shows is quickly going to realize that they are very different shows in every way that matters.

The idea that there was any kind of deal also strikes me as unlikely. Surely it would have required JMS to shut the fuck up and not spout accusations every few years.

As for why DS9's never gotten as much attention: the benign neglect/ DS9 as forgotten stepchild theory explains things well enough. It was syndicated, whereas Voyager and Enterprise were UPN shows with a lot more attention and a lot more effort made at making them appeal to the lowest common denominator audience, with at least occasional success (the introduction of Seven of Nine, for example). Paramount didn't promote DS9 as much because it didn't care about DS9 as much, because DS9 wasn't as important to its plans.

And as for JMS's new Babylon 5: I'll believe it when I see it. I've been with B5 since The Gathering. I've got the DVDs. I bought the remastered series on iTunes. I've got a couple of dozen B5 books, some soundtracks, comics, magazines. But B5 has a history of not going the way JMS wanted, and a history of JMS falling out with the networks he was working with. Then there's Crusade, Legend of the Rangers, and Lost Tales. Sure, there was interference. But Crusade would have been a mess anyway, and the other two were beyond awful. Meanwhile, his latest show was made with the Wachowskis, and even their clout couldn't keep it from getting cancelled. The way JMS is talking about it, and what he's doing with his odd version of Harlan Ellison's Last Dangerous Visions, does not give me hope.

 

[Yistaan]

I think all of this depends on how willing Avery Brooks is to come back. I don't know if he's done much acting recently. I would say the chances of an animated followup are higher than live action.

 

[fireproof78]

Between the DS9 documentary and various beta canon related to the ST ’09 & PIC there are a few thread to go on.

• Vedek Kira Nerys – who still in charge of DS9 - secretly raising an army of Jem’Hadar to be the Bajoran army
• Bajor still not a member of the Federation by 2395
• Ezri Dax captains the USS Emmitt Till (in the novels, she captains the USS Aventine in the 2380s)
• Worf is preparing to succeed Martok as Chancellor (note Worf is supposed to the captain of the Ent-E during PIC)
• Jake Sisko lives in New Orleans and is a successful but isolated writer. His brother is science officer Joseph Yates-Sisko
• Quark is still on the station (note that Quark’s is now a franchise, as seen in PIC on Freecloud
  Spoiler

  (and Lower Decks)
• Garak lives on Bajor
• Molly O Brien in Starfleet
• There is frustration and disappointment that Sisko never returned after 20 years
• Sisko returns (appearing in multiple places at once) and re-finds his humanity
• Section 31 as the villain and plan to destroy the wormhole over their thoughts on religion. They also destroyed the Defiant and killed Captian Nog .Julian Bashir is the head of Section 31.
• The Ferengi Alliance has been expansive under Grand Nagus Rom, according to PIC
• The comic books for the reboot movies had Cardassia as part of the flotilla (including Federation and Klingon ships) that was to rescue Romulan refugees before Hobus went supernova. (This idea was before the destruction of Mars in PIC)
• An unused idea for a sequel TNG film saw Odo as part of a think tank (along with Picard, The Doctor, Archer, Kirk, & Spock) in a Star Trek version of the Avengers (this think tank has never been confirmed in either PIC or the reboot films in regards to dealing with the supernova)
• Plus there was that Bajoran tablet that was featured in the Picard S2 teaser, so we don’t know if DS9 or Sisko will be featured or referenced in S2 or S3 in some capacity
• EDIT: Forgot Jake and Nog's role in The Good That Men Do.

When I look at these threads, I’m okay with Vedek Kira. I’m not sure about her secretly raising a Jem’Hadar army. I’m so fine with Section 31 and Bashir leading it and what their new agenda is. I’m not so sure about Bashir having a role in Nog’s death. And not sure if I would kill off Nog. Why not have him and the Defiant lost in the Gamma Quadrant, like how Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant, because the wormhole was destroyed? Could probably use the destruction of the wormhole as the explanation as to why Sisko never returned as well. And the absence of Odo.

I’m not saying that there’s no merit of following up on DS9 and what became of the characters. But I can see these events being referenced in Discovery (Burnham reading up on history), a half hour Short Trek(various discussion among the Discovery crew discussing history around the time of PIC) and that Georgiou show. A DS9 show does not necessarily have to be made to learn what happened next. I would not expect much beyond a Paramount+ movie anyways, since a DS9 movie was the only thing they never did.

All those threads are appealing to small group of fans. They do not merit their own follow up.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was with you for the first couple of paragraphs in your post, but these paragraphs, I dunno.

I'd be surprised if, first of all, anyone who actually worked on DS9 ever had much access to any B5 preproduction material. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but I think they were probably capable of coming up with some ideas of their own, and I don't think they would want it to be known that they stole someone else's work. I'd be surprised if anyone at Paramount who saw that material thirty years ago is still in any kind of important position at Paramount or any connection with Star Trek now. The time to sue was thirty years ago. But bear in mind the saying: you can't copyright ideas, only the expression of those ideas. If someone says I'm doing a show about a space station, anyone at all can decide that they're going to do the same thing. But even that doesn't have to happen. Plenty of Star Trek writers have told stories about pitching episodes or novels only to be told that the show was doing that story already. Different people can independently come up with the same idea. Look at Charles Sheffield and Arthur C. Clarke both writing novels about space elevators at the same time. Or look at Chicago Hope and ER. You can list some allegedly suspicious similarities between B5 and DS9, but anyone who actually sits down and watches both shows is quickly going to realize that they are very different shows in every way that matters.

The idea that there was any kind of deal also strikes me as unlikely. Surely it would have required JMS to shut the fuck up and not spout accusations every few years.

As for why DS9's never gotten as much attention: the benign neglect/ DS9 as forgotten stepchild theory explains things well enough. It was syndicated, whereas Voyager and Enterprise were UPN shows with a lot more attention and a lot more effort made at making them appeal to the lowest common denominator audience, with at least occasional success (the introduction of Seven of Nine, for example). Paramount didn't promote DS9 as much because it didn't care about DS9 as much, because DS9 wasn't as important to its plans.

And as for JMS's new Babylon 5: I'll believe it when I see it. I've been with B5 since The Gathering. I've got the DVDs. I bought the remastered series on iTunes. I've got a couple of dozen B5 books, some soundtracks, comics, magazines. But B5 has a history of not going the way JMS wanted, and a history of JMS falling out with the networks he was working with. Then there's Crusade, Legend of the Rangers, and Lost Tales. Sure, there was interference. But Crusade would have been a mess anyway, and the other two were beyond awful. Meanwhile, his latest show was made with the Wachowskis, and even their clout couldn't keep it from getting cancelled. The way JMS is talking about it, and what he's doing with his odd version of Harlan Ellison's Last Dangerous Visions, does not give me hope.

It was just something that occurred to me now that B5 might be starting up again. It got me wondering about things I tried not to think about before, back in the '90s.

But disregarding that, I still stand by what I said that DS9's story was told. I would've liked to have seen some Dominion War aftermath, in the early-2000s, but too much time has passed now, so I consider the window for that opportunity to be closed.

 

[Steve Roby]

I still stand by what I said that DS9's story was told. I would've liked to have seen some Dominion War aftermath, in the early-2000s, but too much time has passed now, so I consider the window for that opportunity to be closed.

Yeah, that's perfectly reasonable. I liked a lot of what the novels did to follow up on DS9, but on TV, that would be a different matter. Different context, different audience.

Still, if there were rumours about a new series with Ro Laren and Kira Nerys, not necessarily following the novels' lead, I might get a bit enthusiastic.