Welcome to the 25th Century!

[WarpFactorZ]

The concept of the holodeck originated in 1968, when Gene Roddenberry came up with the idea of a "simulated outdoor recreation area" on the Enterprise for the third season of Star Trek: The Original Series. This idea never came to fruition, probably because of budget constraints. (Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, p. 404)​

How could a "simulated outdoor recreation area" pose any significant budgetary constraints? It's not like they need to build sets. Drive 15 minutes to Griffith Park and film! (unless the constraint was the cost of the location shoot). If necessary, construct a simple arch like in TNG. They wouldn't even need to show it opening to the corridor. Shoot someone entering from the side, then cut them emerging from a door.

Also, given this info and their appearance in TAS, can we finally put to rest the notion that holodecks were non-existent in TOS?

 

[Tuskin38]

How could a "simulated outdoor recreation area" pose any significant budgetary constraints? It's not like they need to build sets. Drive 15 minutes to Griffith Park and film! (unless the constraint was the cost of the location shoot). If necessary, construct a simple arch like in TNG. They wouldn't even need to show it opening to the corridor. Shoot someone entering from the side, then cut them emerging from a door.

Also, given this info and their appearance in TAS, can we finally put to rest the notion that holodecks were non-existent in TOS?

Some people can’t, and have been vandalizing memory alpha to show it.

 

[fireproof78]

Also, given this info and their appearance in TAS, can we finally put to rest the notion that holodecks were non-existent in TOS?

Apparently not

 

[Galileo7]

TAS "Practical Joker" Recreation Room was a holodeck on the 1701 during the five year mission, but after the events of TOS. I do wish that in TMP we would have seen the Recreation Room (Holodeck) of TAS used again. Maybe, when Decker was giving V'Ger Ilia a tour of the 1701-Refit large Recreation area.

 

[Annorax849]

Well like I said in the other thread, I was hoping the Romulan Star Empire would survive in a weaker state, but Kurtzman seemed to say or imply that it had fallen completely. So going through how the others could look....

UFP is by far the strongest in "local space," but it's not unrecognizable or anything. Klingons are strong, but may be having internal struggles. I assume the Cardassian Union is gone too, but that might not be the case. There's still peace with the Dominion with limited contact. The Ferengi are sort of divided into liberals and conservatives.

As for the lesser known powers, the Breen might be the closest thing to an active adversary if there's no new enemy introduced. The Tholians are probably just doing what they've always been doing, the Tamarians are probably close allies if not members, and the Sheliak are just staying away.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

unless the constraint was the cost of the location shoot

Location shooting cost was a limiting factor in general, yes. They couldn't even afford location shooting for "Spectre of the Gun," which was shot on-stage with the half-finished buildings instead. That worked out though, as at least some consider the half-finished buildings inspired, compatible with the themes of the episode, etc.

The original script specified filming the episode on location in an outdoor Western town. However, due to budget restrictions, filming was confined to the regular studio stages. To avoid having to build a complete Western town set, the concept of an incomplete town, put together from "bits and pieces" out of Kirk's mind, was developed, thus allowing the episode to be filmed within budget. (The Star Trek Compendium; Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, p. 403)​

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Spectre_of_the_Gun_(episode)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The original script specified filming the episode on location in an outdoor Western town.​

​

Ironically, Paramount Ranch would have been the ideal location for that shoot. Maybe it was supposed to be?

https://www.nps.gov/samo/planyourvisit/paramountranch.htm

Sadly, the entire western town burned down in November's fire.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Westerns were coming out the wazoo (pardon my French) in that period. I'm sure there were multiple options.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Something like the holodeck is also described on page 190 of The Making of Star Trek (1968) in the paragraph about the "entertainment center."

 

[Unimatrix Q]

As for the lesser known powers, the Breen might be the closest thing to an active adversary if there's no new enemy introduced.

Couldn't it be that the Breen are still members of the Dominion? In the Novelverse they weren't, but i think it would be an interesting situation...

 

[Lord Garth]

Couldn't it be that the Breen are still members of the Dominion? In the Novelverse they weren't, but i think it would be an interesting situation...

They don't really have a reason to quit unless the terms of the Peace Treaty were that the Dominion had to completely withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant, which would nullify the Breen's membership. But, if they didn't, then the Breen would become a lot more prominent than in the past. Not necessarily enemies, but more prominent because of their status.

 

[Annorax849]

Did the Breen actually join like the Cardassians did or were they allies? I was never clear on that...

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Did the Breen actually join like the Cardassians did or were they allies? I was never clear on that...

I guess they were members. IIRC it was even said on the screen. The female founder seemed to appreciate them even more than the Jem 'Hadar. I don't think she would trust them so much if they were just allies.

 

[zar]

Also, given this info and their appearance in TAS, can we finally put to rest the notion that holodecks were non-existent in TOS?

To this day, there are people who insist that the bussard collectors on the TOS Enterprise were no such thing, because that concept was invented later; or that photon torpedoes never had casings and warheads, and everything from TWOK onward was blasphemy. This will never be put to rest. Certain people just aren't wired to be able to accept new creative input on what came before in a fictional universe. But I think you'll find these types are a vocal minority seeking attention, and if you don't engage with them they will be barely noticeable.

Personally I would like to see more examples of "early editions" of things we've seen in TNG-era series in TOS-era series - it makes the universe feel more whole. In the real world, things don't just appear fully developed all at once. Of course showing further development in a show set 20 years later is also welcome, but it goes both ways.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I'd be interested to see if All Good Things is acknowledged, since it's a few years after the original AGT timeline where Picard had Irritmotic Syndrome. I think it'd be interesting to see how they deal with dementia in the future, though I guess that wouldn't sustain a series.

Hopefully we'll see how Starfleet recovered from the Dominion War. I think we'll see them at the end of a long rebuilding, possibly dealing with the morals vs practicality issues arising from fear of the next Borg or Dominion.

 

[fireproof78]

Personally I would like to see more examples of "early editions" of things we've seen in TNG-era series in TOS-era series - it makes the universe feel more whole. In the real world, things don't just appear fully developed all at once. Of course showing further development in a show set 20 years later is also welcome, but it goes both ways.

Discovery is attempting to to do this in some ways (and acknowledged a such from the production team) but it gets lambasted for it.

I'd be interested to see if All Good Things is acknowledged, since it's a few years after the original AGT timeline where Picard had Irritmotic Syndrome. I think it'd be interesting to see how they deal with dementia in the future, though I guess that wouldn't sustain a series.

I sure hope AGT is not acknowledged at all. I would like to believe that Picard's knowledge of possible future would alter that.

Hopefully we'll see how Starfleet recovered from the Dominion War. I think we'll see them at the end of a long rebuilding, possibly dealing with the morals vs practicality issues arising from fear of the next Borg or Dominion.

I would like to see that as well.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

@fireproof78

I agree it would change his life but it wouldn’t change he got the illness.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, the question is whether Q was giving Picard foreknowledge and (among other things) judging his character on how he'd handle bad news like the illness, or Q was just giving him a straight-up what-if scenario and judging his character on how he'd handle bad news like that if it were to come to pass—from Picard's perspective both options look the same.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Beverly detected the early signs of the disease in the present.

I hope for continuity's sake they give him some reason he's cured of it instead of ignoring it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Beverly detected the early signs of the disease in the present.

It was a brain structure that might or might not develop into the condition, IIRC. Star Trek is always hit-or-miss with diseases. Some are easily treatable with a wave of the magic ray emitter, others are incurable. Removal of the entire brain structure might lead to worse complications.