Count me on the original FX side of the fence, especially when it comes to the space shots. I especially don't like the way the new FX aren't edited to match the live action story being told. of course there are other niggles, like the aforementioned EI shot, where they took one of the few shots of ships in 3 dimensions and space-laked it.
Welcome back Tos
- Thread starter Dave Scarpa
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Count me in the TOS-R camp. I loved it when our local station started broadcasting the revised version. I noticed details that were never visible on our little 13" TV, when I was a teenager. It renewed my love for a venerable old friend... Star Trek.
In the end, it doesn't matter what us old fans want. The question for CBS has always been, "Will it make us money?" TOS-R has made them money.
Thankfully, our old versions are still available, unlike George Lucas playing fast and loose with his.I find this attitude insulting. But in keeping with this mindset let's go back to films like the 1933 King Kong and replace all that crappy stop-motion f/x. While we're at it let's go through those classic SF films of the '50s, '60s and '70s and redo all that shitty f/x and do it right.I'm on the side of not treating TOS like some sacred relic. I'm perfectly fine with people tinkering with it (doesn't mean I'll always like the end result). I'm waiting for the 3D interactive version that will eventually come when things like the Oculus Rift take off.
Exactly so. Truth is, the choice is between upgrading and having the show become a forgotten fossil over the next few decades. I suppose that might suit some of us oldsters in a perverse way - as Guy Lombardo once joked on Laugh-In, "When I go, I'm taking New Year's Eve with me!" - but it would be a shame.
I imagine the new effects will be replaced by even newer effects eventually which will reflect improvements in technology and cost.
Old films and television series are visual documents of their time. They do deserve a measure of respect and consideration for the efforts of those who created them.
In the end, it doesn't matter what us old fans want. The question for CBS has always been, "Will it make us money?" TOS-R has made them money.
Yes.
And...?
Of course TOS was very much in danger of being "forgotten" where it matters to the people who own it - forgotten by the audience that might represent a future for their IP. They knew damned well that the original versions were not going to sell on Blu-Ray or command any kind of wprthwhile license fees on HD cable.
Silent movies are curiosities now, not art that's widely enjoyed generation after generation. If TOS is nothing but an artifact of its time, ignored by almost everyone a few decades hence, then all the brave words bandied about by fans regarding its "timelessness" would be pretty vapid.
I still fail to see how the effects make such a big difference since the rest of the show looks so antique.
And, again, my biggest objection to the new FX is that they simply do not fit the visual style of every fucking frame of film surrounding them. The CBS digital crew utterly dropped the ball in that regard.
And, again, my biggest objection to the new FX is that they simply do not fit the visual style of every fucking frame of film surrounding them. The CBS digital crew utterly dropped the ball in that regard.
I think they're uneven, mainly with regard to the space shots; the earliest work where they stuck close to the original compositions is the best (though the model used early on had some problems). Most of the matte replacements are pretty good, and occasionally clever.
Ive been watching the DVD versions with original effects also. They just hold more memories for me. Except for a few of the matt paintings, added shots on Vulcan and the Doomsday machine episode there isn't much I really liked about the new effects. Sometimes they even did the effects worse or they didn't look much different.
I think "insulting" is a bit strong. I don't thinks folks are advocating throwing out the originals. But there are advantages to remastering. It can entice a new generation that lacks the imagination or patience of earlier folks. As a means to an end it has a purpose IMO - and a useful one. That said, I do understand that it's playing with history at a fundamental level and that can be dangerous. That may seem like an overstatement, but consider there is a whole generation out there that think the # key is on their phones (put there) for no other purpose than twittering.
I regret using the word "insulting." At the time it was the first word that came to mind, but upon later reflection "offensive" didn't seem quite right either. The words "disturbing," "disrespectful" and "disdainful" seem more on the mark of what I should have said.
And four generations unaware of the dispute over if a # is an "octothorpe" or an "octotherp" or something else.
I'm still waiting for Donny's sets for that Occulus Rift experience 
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We know that, if the CBS FX team had stuck slavishly to the original TOS designs, the argument would still be raging, only the topic would be about "missed opportunities" for the team to be brave, and to add some different stuff.
For me, there is sufficient freshness to make me watch every episode again, at least one more time - event the really bad ones. Love the baby horta in "The Devil in the Dark", Norman's innards, no strings on alien Korob and Sylvia, and yay the blinking Gorn (although I had liked previous fan explanations that the silver eyes, when compared to ENT's Gorn, were actually space goggles, so why would he have eyelids on the outside?).
There were definitely new fans of 24th century Trek - 21 seasons worth! - who were saying they had never seen TOS because it was too quaint. I have no problem with attempts to update the effects, and it was also good that they modernised them in a fairly random order, so the gradient of the learning curve isn't as obvious when the eps are viewed in original airdate or production order.
And yeah! Holodeck episodes. Where are they?
For me, there is sufficient freshness to make me watch every episode again, at least one more time - event the really bad ones. Love the baby horta in "The Devil in the Dark", Norman's innards, no strings on alien Korob and Sylvia, and yay the blinking Gorn (although I had liked previous fan explanations that the silver eyes, when compared to ENT's Gorn, were actually space goggles, so why would he have eyelids on the outside?).
There were definitely new fans of 24th century Trek - 21 seasons worth! - who were saying they had never seen TOS because it was too quaint. I have no problem with attempts to update the effects, and it was also good that they modernised them in a fairly random order, so the gradient of the learning curve isn't as obvious when the eps are viewed in original airdate or production order.
And yeah! Holodeck episodes. Where are they?
I recently started another TOS remastered re-watch and continue to appreciate the efforts that were put into what continues to be my favourite television program of all time. There's more than enough room for both versions.
With TNG done, I'd also like to see the remainder of the series to get the Blu-ray treatment - despite understanding that the economics side of the business make that unlikely.
With TNG done, I'd also like to see the remainder of the series to get the Blu-ray treatment - despite understanding that the economics side of the business make that unlikely.
But that will happen eventually anyway. The TOS-R project got the property over the HDTV transition, but I wonder how long that will keep it relevant. The way I see it, if old movies are any example, future audiences will increasingly place a premium on historic value, and try to get as original a version as possible. Eventually, the revised versions will be a curiosity with even smaller audience interest than the originals.
Good point.
But it will be a very few that ever have that interest.
That's unknown.
It's interesting to look at old films and series and marvel at what they were able to do considering the resources at hand.
Right, that's what I'm saying. Few will have an interest in TOS, period, in the scheme of the overall entertainment market, and only a small subset of that will have an interest in the revised versions.
Well we don't know that yet. Maybe in another 50 years. So far its still popular. Also even though I am not a fan of NuTrek it has help to get the youngins to at least check out TOS. By the time the show becomes irrelevant we will all be dead so none of us will care.
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