Welcome back Tos

[Dave Scarpa]

Well after years of watching Tos on Netflix , I welcomed back true trek and ripped my blu Rays onto my plex server , the non remastered versions, in all thier 2.0 glory (wish the original mono was included) still these are the versions that really bring trek home to this 53 year old. And it makes me sad that new generations will prob be exposed to this version. The effects set the mood of the show. They are fine

 

[USS Triumphant]

I understand your feeling - but perhaps another way to look at it is that the "upgrades" of TOS-R are what will get new generations to expose themselves to the material *at all* in some cases. Modern senses are spoiled by good special effects and sound, and things without those can seem muted somehow. TOS-R might be the alternative to some kids knowing nothing but nuTrek.

 

[Alter Ego]

I have mixed feelings about the enhancements. On the one hand, I really appreciate the landscape or background improvements (Amok Time for example) but on the other, I sometimes find the contrast between enhancements and original footage frustrating. Hate the remake of the theme song.

 

[BillJ]

I understand your feeling - but perhaps another way to look at it is that the "upgrades" of TOS-R are what will get new generations to expose themselves to the material *at all* in some cases. Modern senses are spoiled by good special effects and sound, and things without those can seem muted somehow. TOS-R might be the alternative to some kids knowing nothing but nuTrek.

I'm on the side of not treating TOS like some sacred relic. I'm perfectly fine with people tinkering with it (doesn't mean I'll always like the end result). I'm waiting for the 3D interactive version that will eventually come when things like the Oculus Rift take off.

 

[RandyS]

I understand your feeling - but perhaps another way to look at it is that the "upgrades" of TOS-R are what will get new generations to expose themselves to the material *at all* in some cases. Modern senses are spoiled by good special effects and sound, and things without those can seem muted somehow. TOS-R might be the alternative to some kids knowing nothing but nuTrek.

I'm on the side of not treating TOS like some sacred relic. I'm perfectly fine with people tinkering with it (doesn't mean I'll always like the end result). I'm waiting for the 3D interactive version that will eventually come when things like the Oculus Rift take off.

I'm waiting for the holodeck version that actually lets me sit in Kirk's chair.

I don't mind the new effects either, despite my preference for the originals. In fact, I think the remastered versions didn't go far enough. Like in "Ultimate Computer" for example, they could have changed a least one of the other Starfleet ships from a Constitution ship to a Reliant, or some design we've never seen before.

The main reason I don't mind the new effects is because the originals are still there for me to enjoy, unlike Star Wars, where the latest change becomes THE version. With TOS, I can watch the version of my choice depending on my mood at any given time.

 

[kirk55555]

I really prefer the TOS remastering. I actually have no problem with old effects in movies/TV shows if I like the stories, but as much as I love the Star Trek franchise as a whole I was never particularly attached to the old school effects of TOS. Unlike the SW changes all the TOS-R did was made the special effects cooler without editing the story, and I'm all for cooler looking ships/planets/space monsters.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I welcomed back true trek and ripped my blu Rays onto my plex server , the non remastered versions, in all thier 2.0 glory (wish the original mono was included) still these are the versions that really bring trek home to this 53 year old

Just a point of order here: the "original broadcast mono" tracks may not 100% match the original broadcast, but they are still a true mono mix, as far as I know. It's just much rarer to see DTS-HD 1.0 tracks; something about having the mono paired in a stereo track is easier for certain systems to decode.

 

[USS Triumphant]

In the interest of full disclosure, I actually like the TOS-R, too - and if anything, I would have made MORE adjustments: a Caitian or Edosian crewperson passing in a walkway, updating some of the screens and readouts, additional ship classes out of the old FASA books shown if possible.

I just said I can *understand* Dave's feeling. And I can. But not because of TOS-R. Because of the modern Transformers movies, and the Greedo-shot-first and Bespin scream parts of the Star Wars Special Editions.

 

[Warped9]

After sampling TOS-R I choose to stick with the originals. The only way I could really support an enhanced TOS is if it were made to look the way the original creators intended albeit within the limits of the era. Adding/changing things for the sake of change, particular things that didn't exist or couldn't have been done back in the day is out of place and does a disservice to the original creators.

The live-action footage was done some service, but the space f/x scenes are simply jarring alongside the live-action sequences.

So until or if ever TOS is enhanced in such a fitting manner I'll stick with the originals. This is also recognizing that modern resources would be needed to recreate the original elements because the originals no longer exist, unlike TNG.

TNG-R did make some slight changes, but overall it looks the way it was meant to look. That's what I'd like to see with TOS

 

[MantaBase]

I like the revised ones. They kinda make it new again.

However, I do not like revising history (as has been done for Star Wars and many other shows big and small). I like the revised ones as long as the originals are right along side them. Of course, when I say original I do mean restored to mid 1960's original quality. I had the joy of watching and old print many years back.

 

[MGagen]

According to Trek ACE, the TOS elements still exist. We could have had new composites from the working elements. Imagine them in all there glory, with modern digital compositing methods...

M.

 

[OpenMaw]

I think the episode of TOS-R that upset me the most was The Enterprise Incident.

They ruined that utterly iconic shot.

Call me crazy, but even though the original isn't as nearly "defined" the composition, angles, and the fact that it's THREE D7's just feels more theatric and potent to me.

There are other bits and pieces of the remastering that don't jive well. Others are actually quite good. Most of the opticals that were redone are great. A number of the matte paintings are fantastic (where they don't contradict the sets, etc). Amok Time look's great with those more dramatic landscapes.

 

[Melakon]

I only have Season 3 with the original effects, but that's fine for me because there are some of my favorite beauty shots of the Enterprise.

 

[Warped9]

I think the episode of TOS-R that upset me the most was The Enterprise Incident.

They ruined that utterly iconic shot.

Call me crazy, but even though the original isn't as nearly "defined" the composition, angles, and the fact that it's THREE D7's just feels more theatric and potent to me.

There are other bits and pieces of the remastering that don't jive well. Others are actually quite good. Most of the opticals that were redone are great. A number of the matte paintings are fantastic (where they don't contradict the sets, etc). Amok Time look's great with those more dramatic landscapes.

This is an interesting case in point. I agree the original composition worked perfectly as is and I would see no need to change it. Other than cleaning it up the only change I could see doing would be to add Romulan markings to replace the Klingon markings. It's something they might have done originally if they had had the time.

Remember, too, that they weren't working with three separate Klingon models, but rather only one photographed at different angles and then composited together into one shot. It's a better example of what was done in "The Ultimate Computer" where a long shot of the Enterprise was used to represent four other Starfleet ships in an approach formation.

But today we could recreate that original composite from "The Enterprise Incident" to give us a nice clean image with the only major change being the visible Romulan markings.


In similar fashion I wouldn't be hellbent on making all the planets seen throughout the series all the same Earth like appearance as seen from space. Throughout the series they used colour to make the planets look more alien similarly as was done in Forbidden Planet. This was bolstered by having alien skies different colours rather than blue as seen from the surface. I would stay with that thinking. Make the new shots cleaner, but stick with the overall colour tone to retain that distinctive look of the show. Is that realistic? Not truly, but it creates a look to the show that makes it distinctive.


This all comes back to what has been basically said before: what would have been possible under the best of conditions back in the day as opposed to what is possible today. And that includes f/x that don't look like obvious cgi animation. Ships should like like genuine physical objects.

Don't go drastically changing the colour of something simply for the hell of it--the Klingon ships are a perfect example in that they took an alien looking design and painted them all a dull boring grey. Don't go adding ridiculous amounts of detail that would never have been done in the first place (as well as retconning in things that didn't yet exist) such as was done with the Tholian ships or the blinking eyes on the Gorn. Don't go creating visual f/x that simply wouldn't have been possible originally such as the changed energy barrier in WNMHGB.

 

[Mudd]

I understand your feeling - but perhaps another way to look at it is that the "upgrades" of TOS-R are what will get new generations to expose themselves to the material *at all* in some cases. Modern senses are spoiled by good special effects and sound, and things without those can seem muted somehow. TOS-R might be the alternative to some kids knowing nothing but nuTrek.

I'm on the side of not treating TOS like some sacred relic. I'm perfectly fine with people tinkering with it (doesn't mean I'll always like the end result). I'm waiting for the 3D interactive version that will eventually come when things like the Oculus Rift take off.

Exactly so. Truth is, the choice is between upgrading and having the show become a forgotten fossil over the next few decades. I suppose that might suit some of us oldsters in a perverse way - as Guy Lombardo once joked on Laugh-In, "When I go, I'm taking New Year's Eve with me!" - but it would be a shame.

I imagine the new effects will be replaced by even newer effects eventually which will reflect improvements in technology and cost.

 

[Warped9]

I understand your feeling - but perhaps another way to look at it is that the "upgrades" of TOS-R are what will get new generations to expose themselves to the material *at all* in some cases. Modern senses are spoiled by good special effects and sound, and things without those can seem muted somehow. TOS-R might be the alternative to some kids knowing nothing but nuTrek.

I'm on the side of not treating TOS like some sacred relic. I'm perfectly fine with people tinkering with it (doesn't mean I'll always like the end result). I'm waiting for the 3D interactive version that will eventually come when things like the Oculus Rift take off.

Exactly so. Truth is, the choice is between upgrading and having the show become a forgotten fossil over the next few decades. I suppose that might suit some of us oldsters in a perverse way - as Guy Lombardo once joked on Laugh-In, "When I go, I'm taking New Year's Eve with me!" - but it would be a shame.

I imagine the new effects will be replaced by even newer effects eventually which will reflect improvements in technology and cost.

I find this attitude insulting. But in keeping with this mindset let's go back to films like the 1933 King Kong and replace all that crappy stop-motion f/x. While we're at it let's go through those classic SF films of the '50s, '60s and '70s and redo all that shitty f/x and do it right.

Old films and television series are visual documents of their time. They do deserve a measure of respect and consideration for the efforts of those who created them.

 

[Marsden]

I'm waiting for the holodeck version that actually lets me sit in Kirk's chair.

That's a great point, it makes me wonder why no one on any of the spin offs ever tried to recreate the previous era instead of detective novels and westerns.

In the interest of full disclosure, I actually like the TOS-R, too - and if anything, I would have made MORE adjustments: a Caitian or Edosian crewperson passing in a walkway, updating some of the screens and readouts, additional ship classes out of the old FASA books shown if possible.

I just said I can *understand* Dave's feeling. And I can. But not because of TOS-R. Because of the modern Transformers movies, and the Greedo-shot-first and Bespin scream parts of the Star Wars Special Editions.

I would have liked Arex or M'ress to be in the background somewhere, not necessarily together, at least once.

I could just imagine them painting M'ress over Barbara Baldavin in Turnabout Intruder, no disrespect to her but Lt. Lisa is not really a cherished character, but I think that would be too far and distracting from the episode. On the other hand, that episode could use some distracting.

 

[BillJ]

Old films and television series are visual documents of their time. They do deserve a measure of respect and consideration for the efforts of those who created them.

I think the bigger disrespect is to allow them to sit on the shelf and collect dust.

 

[Warped9]

Old films and television series are visual documents of their time. They do deserve a measure of respect and consideration for the efforts of those who created them.

I think the bigger disrespect is to allow them to sit on the shelf and collect dust.

That can happen to some things, but I seriously doubt TOS was facing that prospect.

 

[BillJ]

That can happen to some things, but I seriously doubt TOS was facing that prospect.

It would've eventually happened. I don't mind people tinkering, doesn't mean I'm always going to favor the end result. But I think it helps keep older material in the public's eye.

I also don't think it disrespects the creators as it keeps their names front and center. Everything about the show still belongs to those people that worked on it so long ago.