Was Kilana the Worst Vorta Ever?

[Too Much Fun]

Please don't take this as sexist, but this thread has me thinking maybe they just never should have had female Vorta at all. As has been pointed out, all of the Vorta characters we saw that were impressive in some way were male, none of the female Vorta were. More importantly, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Weyoun imply or even just flat out say (I can't remember) that Vorta are pretty much asexual? Like the Jemhadar, they basically exist to serve the Founders. They have no purpose beyond their function to accomplish the Founders' goals (the Vorta through diplomacy/leadership, the Jemhadar through combat), so what use do they have for separate genders?

 

[DevilEyes]

Please don't take this as sexist, but this thread has me thinking maybe they just never should have had female Vorta at all. As has been pointed out, all of the Vorta characters we saw that were impressive in some way were male, none of the female Vorta were. More importantly, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Weyoun imply or even just flat out say (I can't remember) that Vorta are pretty much asexual? Like the Jemhadar, they basically exist to serve the Founders. They have no purpose beyond their function to accomplish the Founders' goals (the Vorta through diplomacy/leadership, the Jemhadar through combat), so what use do they have for separate genders?

Then maybe they just never should have had a male Vorta at all?

You do realize that "male" is a gender as much as "female"? It's not some sort of genderless condition.

As has been pointed out, all of the Vorta characters we saw that were impressive in some way were male, none of the female Vorta were.

Actually it hasn't been pointed out by anyone. Earlier in the thread, Eris, a female Vorta, has been praised for her skills of manipulation, as was the male Vorta from "The Search", while opinions are divided on the impressiveness of Yelgrun, as well as on Weyoun's skills.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

They have no purpose beyond their function to accomplish the Founders' goals, so what use do they have for separate genders?

To make them more personable to the races with which they are negotiating, I imagine. Rather than a sexless drone the people are put at ease by a clearly definable male or female such as they're used to. Plus, I guess they can on occasion play the "attractive member of your preferred sex" role, and (perhaps?) have an advantage of some description over a distracted alien. Though in that case, you'd think the Founders would have given them sex drives so that they could actually pull it off convincingly.

Alternatively, maybe eliminating distinct sexes from their genetic code was too much work.

 

[DevilEyes]

They have no purpose beyond their function to accomplish the Founders' goals, so what use do they have for separate genders?

To make them more personable to the races with which they are negotiating, I imagine. Rather than a sexless drone the people are put at ease by a clearly definable male or female such as they're used to. Plus, I guess they can on occasion play the "attractive member of your preferred sex" role, and (perhaps?) have an advantage of some description over a distracted alien. Though in that case, you'd think the Founders would have given them sex drives so that they could actually pull it off convincingly.

But giving them sex drives would be too risky, while on one hand it might help them manipulate someone sexually, it could just as well make them vulnerable to manipulation. Besides, the Founders do not want their servant races to have any other strong interests besides serving their "gods". I presume that this is why the Vorta don't have an aesthetic sense and can only feel some tastes. As a Founder, you don't want them to get too distracted by anything - food, drink, sex, beauty, art - of the conquered worlds, or, even worse, develop an affinity or attachment to those worlds' cultures or members of those species. Imagine if your Vorta becomes addicted to Quark's holoprograms, can't get enough of kanar, or, worse, gets seduced by an attractive and friendly person who is in fact a Tal Shiar or Section 31 agent!

 

[Too Much Fun]

You do realize that "male" is a gender as much as "female"? It's not some sort of genderless condition.

As has been pointed out, all of the Vorta characters we saw that were impressive in some way were male, none of the female Vorta were.

Actually it hasn't been pointed out by anyone. Earlier in the thread, Eris, a female Vorta, has been praised for her skills of manipulation, as was the male Vorta from "The Search", while opinions are divided on the impressiveness of Yelgrun, as well as on Weyoun's skills.

Well the only female Vorta I ever remembered was the one in "The Ship" who screwed up and the one that Damar, Kira, and Garak killed to take over a Jemhadar ship, so my idea that we hadn't seen one that ever did a good job was based on that. Eris seems to challenge that theory, so I admit to have overlooked her. She was just forgettable to me. D.N. makes a good point, too.

I was just playing devil's advocate, thinking the Founders would genetically tamper with the gender of the Vorta the way they did with the Jemhadar to minimize distractions and keep them focused on their duties. I think one of the reasons I thought that way was because of how uninterested and condescending Weyoun seemed to be about sexual relations.

I remember his reaction to finding Damar with a woman (and talking about Dukat having consorts) implying that to the Vorta sexuality either didn't exist or was seen as unnecessary. Like I said, though, D.N. does give a very logical theory about how the Founders might consider and utilize gender as an advantage for the Vorta even though they never thought of it as possibly being one for the Jemhadar.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'd have to say that the worst Vorta ever was Weyoun 4. He managed to piss off his own Jem'Hadar soliders so much that the First killed him. Kilana is probably second worst, due to her mishandling of Sisko when they first met.

- Weyoun 5 helped build the Dominion presence in the Alpha Quadrant.
- Weyoun 6 tried to save the Federation (though from a Dominion perspective, I suppose that makes him the worst).
- Weyoun 7 was at least killed by the enemy.
- Weyoun 8 was also at least killed by the enemy.

- Borath was good at deception.
- Deyos was good at administration in a Dominion prison camp.
- Eris was good at manipulation.
- Gelnon managed to launch an attack on Coridan and almost managed to destablize the Federation/Klingon Alliance (he was only stopped because O'Brien just happened to be in the right place at the right time).
- Keevan was good at manipulation.
- Luaran. I can't say one way or another. She was onscreen for too short a time before she was killed.
- Yelgrun was just a badass. Gotta love him.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

On a side note, did anyone else find Iggy Pop's portrayal of a Vorta really "uncomfortable"? I'm going to guess most people loved it, but I thought his acting was terrible and didn't work well at all for the most part.

I found him jarring and un-Vorta-esque. Weyoun and Keevan were the best of the bunch.

I'd have to say that the worst Vorta ever was Weyoun 4. He managed to piss off his own Jem'Hadar soliders so much that the First killed him.

I have a feeling that that's considered an acceptable occupational hazard and not counted against a Vorta. Especially a low number. Live, err, re-clone and learn.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

They have no purpose beyond their function to accomplish the Founders' goals, so what use do they have for separate genders?

To make them more personable to the races with which they are negotiating, I imagine. Rather than a sexless drone the people are put at ease by a clearly definable male or female such as they're used to. Plus, I guess they can on occasion play the "attractive member of your preferred sex" role, and (perhaps?) have an advantage of some description over a distracted alien. Though in that case, you'd think the Founders would have given them sex drives so that they could actually pull it off convincingly.

But giving them sex drives would be too risky, while on one hand it might help them manipulate someone sexually, it could just as well make them vulnerable to manipulation. Besides, the Founders do not want their servant races to have any other strong interests besides serving their "gods". I presume that this is why the Vorta don't have an aesthetic sense and can only feel some tastes. As a Founder, you don't want them to get too distracted by anything - food, drink, sex, beauty, art - of the conquered worlds, or, even worse, develop an affinity or attachment to those worlds' cultures or members of those species. Imagine if your Vorta becomes addicted to Quark's holoprograms, can't get enough of kanar, or, worse, gets seduced by an attractive and friendly person who is in fact a Tal Shiar or Section 31 agent!

Good point . I guess you're right- the risks outweigh the benefits.

 

[Photon]

This guy

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ While I really like the character, he essentially admitted he was a failure as a Vorta, or at least would be viewed that way by the Founders or his fellows. He didn't kill himself upon capture as a Vorta should, and instead aimed for a comfortable existence as a POW for the remainder of the war.

Then those damn Ferengi had to go and ruin everything...