^In all seriousness, I'm convinced Neelix makes an excellent partner for some women, I'm just not convinced he would be suitable for 7.
Was Chakotay/Seven really that bad?
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^In all seriousness, I'm convinced Neelix makes an excellent partner for some women, I'm just not convinced he would be suitable for 7.
Agreed
I think it would be hard for anyone to be a partner for Seven because she is so socially under developed
A man named Hugh Cambridge. He has very unconventional methods when it comes to discussing people's problems ... He comes across as a not very nice man. However, it seems that his methods work, he has successfully treated people like Chakotay, Seven or Captain Eden.
I only read the relaunch book up until THE ETERNAL TIDE but had the impression Kirsten Beyer thought that Seven was eccentric herself so the best person she could have as a partner should be just as "weird" (sorry, English is not my mother tongue, I can't find a better word). So she got Cambridge. However, I might be wrong, esp. that there are four or five books after TET and I don't know how the relationship goes on.
In the military, it's at the commanders discretion whether or not 2 people in the same unit (and same rank)can fraternise, or get married, but its pretty universal that getting into a relationship with your subordinate or superior is off limits. It's much the same in the civilian world. From personal experience in both situations, it can very often lead to problems that would 'betterwise' be avoided.
They also depict this conflict of interest in Trek a few times. Picard had that one gf he had to send on a hazardous mission. And worf got that cardassian turncoat killed to go back and save Jadzia. Even Kirk had a few "conflicts of interest"
And Worf's decision cost the Federation a lot. The informant was going to give them the identity and location of every changeling infiltrator in the "Apha Quadrant" and on earth, which as far as we know, are still there spying.
They also depict this conflict of interest in Trek a few times. Picard had that one gf he had to send on a hazardous mission. And worf got that cardassian turncoat killed to go back and save Jadzia. Even Kirk had a few "conflicts of interest"
And Worf's decision cost the Federation a lot. The informant was going to give them the identity and location of every changeling infiltrator in the "Apha Quadrant" and on earth, which as far as we know, are still there spying.
^ Captain Sisko was at fault for sending a couple alone on a dangerous mission. However if Starfleet is sending folks on five year missions in deep space it should expect fraternisation. Or forget about exploring and stick to being a military structure where each planet defends its borders.
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The Loving Game
Sadly, it hasn't been finished. Hopefully it will be some day.
She's got another long one on the go that I've been following (two new chapters up recently, yay!): The Gift
The idea in this one is that the Borg Cube that Seven was on crash lands on Chakotay's home planet before he leaves for Starfleet Academy (for the purpose of this story, Chakotay has been de-aged by quite a few years so he and Seven are much closer in age). Both of them end up joining the Maquis and become part of Voyager's crew when Janeway destroys the Caretaker's Array.
Although I'm not fond of their romance, I could have accepted to see them romantically linked (in spite of the too obvious age gap ; inspite of the relationship of subordination, which would have stopped Chakotay to accept Seven's advances*; inspite of different emotional expectations: for Seven, this "relatiosnhip" was an unknown but necessary step to pursue the recovering of her humanity and for Chakotay, besides soothing his ego, this "relationship" allows him to dream in a future more radiant than the one which was outlined in front of him), IF:
1) this relationship had been well presented (in style of Tom/B'Elena's romance, which took almost 1/2 season to become a reality),
2) well played (as much Beltran made the Beltran with an acting which was as blank as usual, as much Ryan, who had accustomed us in a good performance since the beginning, whatever her scenes, was the shadow of her former self in her love scenes with Beltran but even on all the 2 episodes of Endgame, as if she didn't feel concerned anymore -> come on, look at Mulgrew/Beltran scenes of flirting through just 1 or 2 scenes (even if I'm delighted that it was not farther between their characters!) and/or Tom/B'Elena together in one episode when they began to date and compare to Ryan/Beltran scenes of courtship in Endgame (even if Seven is novice in this domain, Chakotay doesn't sound too excited and confident while Seven exactly expects to be guided in this exercice!) -> they behave as 2 fishes lost in the water (even if actors were uncomfortable by the sudden & supposed closeness of their characters who were at the 2nd date, they - in particular Ryan! - didn't know how to hide it and viewers felt it to the point that it was so awkward to watch! And since almost no one paid very much attention to the beginning of their "supposed" love story, because it was just NOT credible, how to believe that their love will be big and beautiful to the point that after Seven's death, Chakotay will be completly destroyed?!
=> honestly, I shall never stop thanking enough the authors for having saved us to see these scenes!
As for "Natural Law" to which some of you made a reference, I'd say that for me, this episode marks for maybe the first and only time, where Chakotay and Seven had a true working relationship (until then, they spent their time to say through a third party, how little respect they had of each other through of course, their own vocabulary and/or body language, and that although their respective position on Voyager!), like she had so many time with The Doctor, Tuvok and Janeway. Nothing more.
As for the idea that Chakotay was the only choice aboard for Seven (because he was single, handsome and ready to be chosen, well, maybe BUT it doesn't mean that it was the GOOD choice -> ex: Janeway with Chakotay, B'Elena with Harry...
1) this relationship had been well presented (in style of Tom/B'Elena's romance, which took almost 1/2 season to become a reality),
2) well played (as much Beltran made the Beltran with an acting which was as blank as usual, as much Ryan, who had accustomed us in a good performance since the beginning, whatever her scenes, was the shadow of her former self in her love scenes with Beltran but even on all the 2 episodes of Endgame, as if she didn't feel concerned anymore -> come on, look at Mulgrew/Beltran scenes of flirting through just 1 or 2 scenes (even if I'm delighted that it was not farther between their characters!) and/or Tom/B'Elena together in one episode when they began to date and compare to Ryan/Beltran scenes of courtship in Endgame (even if Seven is novice in this domain, Chakotay doesn't sound too excited and confident while Seven exactly expects to be guided in this exercice!) -> they behave as 2 fishes lost in the water (even if actors were uncomfortable by the sudden & supposed closeness of their characters who were at the 2nd date, they - in particular Ryan! - didn't know how to hide it and viewers felt it to the point that it was so awkward to watch! And since almost no one paid very much attention to the beginning of their "supposed" love story, because it was just NOT credible, how to believe that their love will be big and beautiful to the point that after Seven's death, Chakotay will be completly destroyed?!
=> honestly, I shall never stop thanking enough the authors for having saved us to see these scenes!
As for "Natural Law" to which some of you made a reference, I'd say that for me, this episode marks for maybe the first and only time, where Chakotay and Seven had a true working relationship (until then, they spent their time to say through a third party, how little respect they had of each other through of course, their own vocabulary and/or body language, and that although their respective position on Voyager!), like she had so many time with The Doctor, Tuvok and Janeway. Nothing more.
As for the idea that Chakotay was the only choice aboard for Seven (because he was single, handsome and ready to be chosen, well, maybe BUT it doesn't mean that it was the GOOD choice -> ex: Janeway with Chakotay, B'Elena with Harry...
I saw nothing wrong with the chemistry between Chakotay and Seven. I really enjoyed their conflicts throughout Season Four and especially the big fight they had in an early Season Six episode before they made up. But . . . their romance happened too fast. I thought it was just rushed.
Yeah I wondered what happened to those infiltrator changelings.
The Tom and B'elanna romance was planned out before the show even started. C/7 was an idea that came about during season 7. I'd say it had just as much development as Worf and Troy. In fact it's an almost perfect parallel.Although I'm not fond of their romance, I could have accepted to see them romantically linked (in spite of the too obvious age gap ; inspite of the relationship of subordination, which would have stopped Chakotay to accept Seven's advances*; inspite of different emotional expectations: for Seven, this "relatiosnhip" was an unknown but necessary step to pursue the recovering of her humanity and for Chakotay, besides soothing his ego, this "relationship" allows him to dream in a future more radiant than the one which was outlined in front of him), IF:
1) this relationship had been well presented (in style of Tom/B'Elena's romance, which took almost 1/2 season to become a reality),
2) well played (as much Beltran made the Beltran with an acting which was as blank as usual, as much Ryan, who had accustomed us in a good performance since the beginning, whatever her scenes, was the shadow of her former self in her love scenes with Beltran but even on all the 2 episodes of Endgame, as if she didn't feel concerned anymore -> come on, look at Mulgrew/Beltran scenes of flirting through just 1 or 2 scenes (even if I'm delighted that it was not farther between their characters!) and/or Tom/B'Elena together in one episode when they began to date and compare to Ryan/Beltran scenes of courtship in Endgame (even if Seven is novice in this domain, Chakotay doesn't sound too excited and confident while Seven exactly expects to be guided in this exercice!) -> they behave as 2 fishes lost in the water (even if actors were uncomfortable by the sudden & supposed closeness of their characters who were at the 2nd date, they - in particular Ryan! - didn't know how to hide it and viewers felt it to the point that it was so awkward to watch! And since almost no one paid very much attention to the beginning of their "supposed" love story, because it was just NOT credible, how to believe that their love will be big and beautiful to the point that after Seven's death, Chakotay will be completly destroyed?!
=> honestly, I shall never stop thanking enough the authors for having saved us to see these scenes!
As for "Natural Law" to which some of you made a reference, I'd say that for me, this episode marks for maybe the first and only time, where Chakotay and Seven had a true working relationship (until then, they spent their time to say through a third party, how little respect they had of each other through of course, their own vocabulary and/or body language, and that although their respective position on Voyager!), like she had so many time with The Doctor, Tuvok and Janeway. Nothing more.
As for the idea that Chakotay was the only choice aboard for Seven (because he was single, handsome and ready to be chosen, well, maybe BUT it doesn't mean that it was the GOOD choice -> ex: Janeway with Chakotay, B'Elena with Harry...
Get it? "Parallel?"
I'll see myself out...
I believe the Tom and B'Elanna romance was not planned from the start. Early on there was going to be a romance but there was not a decision until later if it would be between B'Elanna and Tom or Chakotay.
I think it was was. They may not have capitalized on it immediately, but surely by season two, it had begun.
In the Voyager "writers bible" under Tom Paris it says:
"He has an affection for B'elanna, seeing in her a soul at war, and reminding him of himself."
And more so under B'elanna Torres it reads:
"B'elanna has grown into a fetching young beauty, with an incandescent sexuality. She turns many heads, but the person she has designs on is Tom Paris"
I don't know how I feel about Chakotay/Torres. I can't see them together. I know in that one episode, it's revealed that she has some sort of primal sexual fantasy about him, but I don't think she would really want a relationship with him. He's like a big brother to her.
Am I the only one who did see a possible Neelix/Samantha Wildman relationship?
The hints of a tom and b'elanna romance started in season 1
The Voyager writer's guide(Voyager bible) was written berfore season 1 was produced
Yes.
Despite my enjoyment of the Samantha/Seven story I found, Sam Wildman has always been presented as someone remaining faithful to her husband.
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