Was Chakotay/Seven really that bad?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Sophie74656, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Location:
    In a sub-sub atomic universe with kittens
    That's incredibly vulgar and repulsive.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    We all have oral sex, or want to have oral sex.

    Some people fumble about with the wrong oral sex in the beginning (for their preference), while with other people (bisexuals/pansexuals) there are no modes of oral sex that they do not dislike.

    It is more likely that Harry is straight, so I do not understand what you are so fussed about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  3. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Location:
    In a sub-sub atomic universe with kittens
    Nature, is something to rise above.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Sophie74656 likes this.
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Voth you should just watch The Chute, it will make you slash Tom and Harry soooo hard.
     
  6. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Location:
    Planet Spaceball
    If properly developed, Chakotay/Seven could have been fascinating and served both characters wonderfully. They're so opposite in some ways, but so similar in arguably the most internal ways.

    Both are stoic on the outside and emotional volcanoes on the inside, both prefer to play by their own rules, both are curious explorers, and both care deeply for their friend Kathryn Janeway. Seven was probably drawn to Chakotay because when she finally admitted she wanted to be human and was longing to get away from being Borg, Chakotay is arguably the most human and least Borg person onboard, with his spirituality and his relationship to nature.

    There is an amazing writer on fanfic. net named Teya who does C7 fantastically. This woman has been a Trekkie since the original series, and is also Native American, and she writes Chakotay's background far more believably than any other writer I've seen to date. She does all the characters fantastically though.

    In my opinion, her best is "Thundersnow," which is about Seven dealing with the consequences of having that emotion blockade removed in "Endgame."
    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11353934/1/Thundersnow
     
    Mareika likes this.
  7. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Location:
    In a sub-sub atomic universe with kittens
    I always was a Harry/Seven shipper.
     
  8. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Location:
    Paris (FRANCE)
    Well, it is a question of perspective (Beltran/Chakotay & Ryan/Seven had not much to do in the finale so at least, the 2 or 3 scenes showing them together supposedly cooing like young lovebirds, have occupied them for a time! :rolleyes:

    After to have said that, the general feeling was rather negative, not necessarely because they do not go well together(although this is my opinion) or their couple was something illogical but mainly because 1) C/7 wasn't J/C; 2) C/7's romantic association came out of the blue, while they are hardly spoken in 4 years & Chakotay never seemed (or even showed his interest) interested in her since she came aboard, right?! Result: right the show ended, the authors of non canon novels rushed to write scenarios undoing this unexpected couple.
    And I'd add a 3) with the acting, which was quite bad, let's be honest, like if actors themselves did not feel concerned by this supposed romance and/or didn't want viewers take it too seriously.

    I would be curious to know, if a reboot and/or a movie had to be done in a few years if, scriptwriters would keep C/7 as an item or just would think to delete this part of the script... :shrug:

    (May we all have a safe and merry Christmas and read you on Dec 30th, date of my return among you ! :hugegrin:)
     
    Refuge likes this.
  9. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    We are trapped in a time loop.
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    It seems to take the fanfic authors to do a proper job of putting Chakotay and Seven together in a relationship that is well-written, in character, and makes sense.
     
    WarpTenLizard likes this.
  11. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Location:
    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    There we go... she and Chakotay marry and she turns all Lorena Bobbitt on him... :eek: then Q really would be right:

     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in its final stage
    Important update: Chakotay/Seven is still really bad.
     
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    United States
    Nah, I think it's still really cute. On paper, it might seem at odds, but I think the actors do a terrific job of forcing it to work better than it probably could otherwise. Jeri Ryan, especially, makes it all seem to work out well. I don't know, I guess I just see things like this as sweet (am currently watching "Human Error").
     
    WarpTenLizard and Mareika like this.
  14. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    I like this couple, I can see why they are attracted to each other. They are both strong characters and they are so cute together. I also like the chemistry between the characters/actors.
     
  15. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Location:
    Unimatrix √-1
    I must have missed that part when I blinked.
     
  16. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Location:
    Paris (FRANCE)
    First, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE (happiness, health and success to you, friends & families) !!! :hugegrin:

    :guffaw: to φ of π's comment t but I can hardly contradict him/her because yes, the chemistry between Chakotay & Seven was really far from obvious, at least on the screen, especially compared to Chakotay's (flirty/seductive) attitude towards Janeway, Kellin or even Marla Gilmore.
    As for Seven, she showed much more "passion" (at least for a human raised in a Borg environment, where feelings are repressed) in flirting, wether with Axum in Unimatrix & yes, even with Janeway herself, especially in some of their intimate scenes (cf to the equivocal body language from both actresses, even if it wasn't necessarily desired, especially according to the tense relmationship between Mulgrew and Ryan! -> I read that Bryan Fuller - & Brannon Braga wasn't against this idea, in itself - wanted to see Seven interested in female representatives and it would have been logical to see her interested in a strong personality as Janeway's one. Alas, Paramount studios and UPN's representatives dismissed the idea, believing that viewers weren't ready to see a lesbian romance to become).

    Anyway. To return to C/7, for me, Robert Beltran & Jeri Ryan ensured the minimum service (I think their minds were already elsewhere: RB just wanted to have something to do than stting in a chair, saying "yes, Captain, no, Captain" and then, to see his character flirting with the well-turned pretty blonde wasn't finally so bad, regardless of the ins and outs. As for JR, she seemed not to care anymore about her character's fate) given the potential already shown with other actors (both have more or less admitted in interviews given afterwards that this romance was hardly understandable by themselves - and supposedly and logically by viewers too - because it just came out of nowhere => they never really made effort to defend it) and only those who want to see chemistry between them, can see it but hey, everyone is free to see things one's own way, right?! :D

    Even if we can not undo what has been done on screen, amateur writers have
    always the option of offering us another purpose or the same end but with more
    development, from the moment where characters are still alive. Alas, it's not always the case and no matter attemps from authors to re-write the scenario, nothing will change the fact that, in the case of a couple, whether good or mismatched, the end will be hardly correctable if one of the two dies, on screen, in road, right?! -> cf to Major Crimes and the shocking death of the major character, Cpt Sharon Raynor. Indeed, regardless, this event might not have too much consequence, but alas, the character was romantically linked to another one, Andy Flynn, and their lovestory (a long courtship of 5 years, which finally ended by a wedding in the first part of s6) was one of elements that kept us in suspense for several years. Sad & frustrating! :mad:
    -> imagine the same if Cpt Janeway, Chakotay or Seven* (what was initially planned by Braga but refused by UPN, because of the character's popularity) had died suddenly in the last season... . It would have left a bitter taste in the mouth and re-watching the series, in particular the last season could be particularly unpleasant.
     
  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    Didn't someone just post a video of Jeri Ryan defending the romance?

    If Braga had gotten to kill Seven(even though he was no longer working on Voyager in s7)fans would have hated him to a magnitude so much greater than some do now. He had a reputation as one of the "great" Berman era Star Trek writers up until Enterprise, and especially after Enterprise's finale, when a main was killed, his name is spoken with scorn.

    At least he had a good reason to kill Seven, i.e. getting the rest of the way home in one jump should come at great cost, but yeah. He would never have been forgiven.
     
  18. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Location:
    Lone
    There's a thread on page three of this Voyager forum 'Why did Chakotay choose to be with Seven instead of Janeway'. Post #572 one of Mareika's entries. It kind of gives an insight into the actresses understanding of how the Chakotay/Seven romance was written and presented.

    As for Berman and Braga I thank them for their efforts!
     
  19. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Location:
    Tube 32
    Agree Mareika!
    And while the chemistry between the actors was good enough to provide the spark needed to make the pairing believable I just wish they had started it sooner, like at the beginning of season 7 (or even a few episodes before the finale), so they'd have had more time to flesh out the romance. ;)
     
  20. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Location:
    Unimatrix √-1
    To be fair, Jeri Ryan would have chemistry with an empty room, she's that awesome.

    Robert Beltran seemed like the director just didn't like him.
     
    cosmic mouse likes this.