Was Captain Kirk bisexual?

[Joshua Howard]

With all due respect to people of all orientations, this is exactly the kind of thing that adds a film of perversion onto the natural manner in which people should be naturally beheld. Friendship should not be associated with some sort of sex fetish. Companionship between people should not be treated as sexual by default. I don't like the sex-based-cultural trend of making all sorts of groundless implications just for the heck of it and because they can't be unequivocally disproven.

If two guys shake each other's hands, you can say that they might be doing it because they are gay, or you can just say that you saw two guys shaking hands. If you keep going down that road of seeing what isn't there, then pretty soon everybody and everything has some kind of gay implications tacked on, and that gets wierd and becomes a social encumbrance.

Kirk liked ladies, maybe even a little too much, and no mention was ever made to him having a single bit of sexual desire to become intimate with Spock or any other dude, so for darn sake, let's not go down that road!

 

[DonIago]

Let's not go down the road of not making heteronormative assumptions?

Really, where's the actual harm in thinking "Hey, maybe Kirk was bi?" Nobody's hurt in the process, some people find it amusing, and the mere thought isn't going to bring down the franchise.

It amazes me how people get up in arms over the mere suggestion that what they saw wasn't what they thought they saw. Especially given that, to me, Star Trek has always been about exploring new possibilities, not rejecting them because they don't fit into our preconceived notions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Let's not go down the road of not making heteronormative assumptions?

Let's also not go down the road of using words like "heteronormative".

Really, where's the actual harm in thinking "Hey, maybe Kirk was bi?"

No harm, of course, but also no reason. Just seems like grasping at straws.

 

[SFRabid]

Can 1 + 1 = 2 or 3? I know all of the instances we have seen of 1 + 1 come out to 2, but three is always right there next to two. Maybe 1 + 1 can = 3 and we just have not seen it? Just because we never see 1 + 1 = 3 does not mean it does not happen.

 

[doubleohfive]

Let's not go down the road of not making heteronormative assumptions?

Let's also not go down the road of using words like "heteronormative".

Wow. No ignorance here. Nope. None at all.

Really, where's the actual harm in thinking "Hey, maybe Kirk was bi?"

No harm, of course, but also no reason. Just seems like grasping at straws.

From my perspective, there *is* a reason. It's called cultural criticism. As I said up thread, you can do this with pretty much any character in any film or television series or other media.

Robin Wood was a famous film critic back in the '60s who wrote a big fat book psychoanalyzing a bunch of Alfred Hitchcock films. It was in-depth and quite informative.

20 years later, he came out of the closet. He then went and re-wrote his book from the perspective of an openly gay man versus one in hiding. "Hitchcock's Films Revisited" presented an entirely different take on pretty much everything he'd critiqued before. It opened up avenues of discussion and created a school of thought to consider other implications the films made.

So, when I joke about how closed-minded most of the people I encounter on this board are, it's usually over some philosophical debate like this. And people *are* closed-minded to the Nth degree here. God forbid someone have a new interpretation of something. (nuBSG comes to mind...)

Your comments in reply here are the epitome of closed-minded ignorance, Mr. Laser Beam and strictly speaking from the point of view of an academic discussion, rather useless. But this isn't only and academic discussion, so I can't really say that with full meaning. Instead, I'll just say -- if you disagree with the concept, explain why. Don't pussy out with a "There's no need to discuss this."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

if you disagree with the concept, explain why.

Because I just don't see any evidence that Kirk likes guys. Not even if it's Spock.

 

[Joshua Howard]

Granted, I'm not saying that there is harm in implying that Kirk may have been bisexual. It is a TV show, after all. It isn't like such a speculation would kill someone, or rechart the future of human destiny.

If I hand you an orange, and you say to me, "I think that a gay man may have picked this orange" I will respond by saying, "I cannot prove to you that this orange was not picked by a gay man. However, I find it strange that, upon being handed an orange, the first thing which enters your mind concerns the sexual orientation of the grove worker."

For all practical purposes, 1+1 does equal 3 if there is an extra 1 concealed under something which nobody knows about. That does not, however, provide suitable cause for blind assumption. After all, the same logic used here to suggest that Kirk may have been bisexual could be used to say that he may have been a shape shifting immortal alien in disguise assuming the form of a man.

 

[Spork111]

I haven't bothered to read all five pages of stuff, but in response to the original question I would unequivocally say that no, Kirk is not bisexual. In fact, I think he's about as straight as you can get. Of course, I'm not saying there would be anything wrong with it if he was bisexual, but I just don't see any evidence for it. In fact, all the evidence is to the contrary.

People have the right to see subtext where they want to, but I have to say that two men can be very close friends without being lovers. Kirk and Spock are colleagues and friends, perhaps even brothers in a metaphorical sense, but not lovers.

 

[T'Girl]

The most credible evidence you'd have would be someone claiming "I'm bisexual"

The most credible evidence you could receive as a observer would be demonstrated actions on Kirk's part. Give that we watched Kirk's life, both public and private through the "fourth wall" that gives us a perspective his friends and shipmates lack.

From a certain point of view, we in fact observed Kirk's entire life. Because what was on screen was all there was.

.

And is it just me, or is everyone here get sick and tired of that "Avatar" advertisement?

.

.

 

[greenguy]

With all due respect to people of all orientations, this is exactly the kind of thing that adds a film of perversion onto the natural manner in which people should be naturally beheld. Friendship should not be associated with some sort of sex fetish. Companionship between people should not be treated as sexual by default. I don't like the sex-based-cultural trend of making all sorts of groundless implications just for the heck of it and because they can't be unequivocally disproven.

If two guys shake each other's hands, you can say that they might be doing it because they are gay, or you can just say that you saw two guys shaking hands. If you keep going down that road of seeing what isn't there, then pretty soon everybody and everything has some kind of gay implications tacked on, and that gets wierd and becomes a social encumbrance.

Kirk liked ladies, maybe even a little too much, and no mention was ever made to him having a single bit of sexual desire to become intimate with Spock or any other dude, so for darn sake, let's not go down that road!

I understand where are you coming from but this is still slightly disrespectful to people of various orientations whether you intended it or not. You have inadvertently labelled homo- and bisexuality as "sex fetish[es]," "weird," and "social encumbrance" when they are used merely as a lens to analyze, for fun, a character like Kirk. It sounds like you are uncomfortable with "gay implications."

Hasn't the "film of perversion" you suggest about human relationships already been egregiously applied when we see a new female character and know ahead of time that Kirk is going to snag her before they even meet? Does sexuality stop being perverted when we receive concrete evidence about its nature like you suggest? Also, is Kirk's status as a "ladies' man" not a sex-based cultural implication being utilized repeatedly and purposefully as plot device? Is this only okay because it is not "groundless?" This is what doubleohfive is talking about with heteronormativity: Kirk's sexuality IS forced down our throats at every juncture he is with is interacting with a woman, and people go along with this and don't notice how overt sexuality is. Suddenly, people are mentioning how uncomfortable, awkward, and unnecessary it is when we ask if someone might be bisexual.

So, when I joke about how closed-minded most of the people I encounter on this board are, it's usually over some philosophical debate like this. And people *are* closed-minded to the Nth degree here. God forbid someone have a new interpretation of something. (nuBSG comes to mind...)

I agree with your post. People are close-minded, and it's not even about the interpretation, but rather the mere suggestion that an institution like gender and sexuality might be something different than they originally thought. The discomfort on this thread is very palpable.

 

[6079SmithW]

I think a good question to ask is, "If Gene Roddenberry were alive today and had produced TOS now, in 2010, with our current more tolerant attitudes (well, more so now then back when TOS aired) towards sexuality, would he have written Kirk's character as bisexual?"

Look how much flak he took for Kirk's interracial kiss. I know Roddenberry was trying to stretch the boundaries of what was then the social norm, but he had to revise some of what he wanted to show, I think, by the censors. So maybe, if he could have back then, he would have made the sexuality of some characters more ambiguous, or not so "heteronormative."

That being said, I personally think Kirk is a heterosexual as there was no on screen evidence to suggest otherwise. His close relationship with Spock was a deep personal friendship. They were best friends and "brothers.

 

[DonIago]

I think Kirk is heterosexual.
I think if TOS was produced today that he might not be. In fact, given that a not insignificant portion of the time his flings were done with some sort of ulterior motive, I think it could be argued that we might at least see him being just as willing to try to...er...sway men to his point of view as he was women.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Only in fanfiction, although it might have been interesting if he really had been.

 

[Vonstadt]

Leaves it up to the imagination of Fluff and Slash writers ...

Know what slash is of course, but what is "Fluff" please?

Here's a more racy question, one probably a lot of you won't answer honestly: would it really make *that* big of a difference to you if Kirk were, in fact, bisexual?

Yes, it would add a new level of nuance to the character and if he is bi-sexual like me it would allow me to more closely identify with my favorite captain.

A term I've seen on a few fan fic boards, generally means a romantic story that is more emotional than graphic.

To be honest I wouldn't care who or what the man sleeps with in his own time. When he showed up for work he brought his full game.

Homosexual, Hetrosexual or Bisexual he would still be my favorite Captain.

Vons

 

[Anji]

Anybody who has served in the military, especially under battle conditions, create a special bond with those they have served with.

Kirk and Spock have that bond, and sorry guys, nothing more.

 

[DevilEyes]

A question like "Was XY bisexual?" doesn't have a straightforward answer when XY is a fictional character. It would be better to ask more specific questions:

- Was Kirk intended to be portrayed as bisexual in TOS and TOS movies?
- From what we actually see on screen (in Trek shows and movies), does Kirk seem to be bisexual?
- Is it possible to interpret the character as bisexual?
- Do some fans see Kirk as bisexual?
- Is Kirk bisexual in any of the official non-canon Trek (literature, comics)?
- Is Kirk bisexual in fan works?

My answers:
- I believe he wasn't - even though, in theory, it's possible: even if Roddenberry and others had wanted for him to be bisexual, the 1960s censorship wouldn't have allowed it. However, I don't think this was the case.
- I don't think so, but others may have different views.
- Sure it is. There's nothing that 100% precludes it.
- Apparently, yes.
- I don't know, I haven't read them all.
- I don't read fanfiction, but it's common knowledge that the answer is "HELL YES".

 

[SFRabid]

I think Roddenberry created Kirk as an extension of himself. A womanizer surrounded by miniskirts with the ability to travel to other planets and seduce women across the galaxy. Nothing remotely bi-sexual about that.

 

[Udat]

No.

He loved Spock like a brother, not a lover.

Hates to quote a fleet Captain.... but the juniors apparently have opinions....

 

[DevilEyes]

I think Roddenberry created Kirk as an extension of himself. A womanizer surrounded by miniskirts with the ability to travel to other planets and seduce women across the galaxy. Nothing remotely bi-sexual about that.

Yes, and that's why I said it's unlikely that it was ever intended by the show's creators that he would be bisexual.

Later on Roddenberry gave some very ambiguous answers to questions about Kirk and Spock, but that was, IMO, simply because he was aware of the phenomenon of Kirk/Spock slash and was trying not to alienate any of the fans.

 

[thumbtack]

Clearly, all of the Star Trek captains are gay.

Except Kirk.