Was Captain Janeway Bipolar?

[Adm_Hawthorne]

But, come on, we all realize how the term bipolar is being used in this case. Outside of our Psych 101 classes, when we refer to someone who jumps cars on his motorcycle as insane, we mean that he is reckless. When we say someone is bipolar we mean that he flip-flops.

If we were going to go that direction, then the argument could apply to a lot of captains in Starfleet.

Unless the OP wants to chime in, I'm going to take it at face value.

OK, then. I thought that most people taking 'bipolar' in its clinical sense were being disingenuous. Apparently not. This certainly doesn't say much for the character of Janeway that she can seriously be discussed this way. But, all right, I'm half buying it--she is flakey.

No, that's not it exactly. I think you have to take into account the history of this particular forum to understand why the question is taken at face value.

I don't think you'd find the same type of response at a different Trek forum. Here, the posts that are critical of Janeway's mental stability have been such that it's just the natural assumption that the OP means quite literally what they are putting down.

History has a way of shaping how we look at these things.

 

[kimc]

If we were going to go that direction, then the argument could apply to a lot of captains in Starfleet.

Unless the OP wants to chime in, I'm going to take it at face value.

OK, then. I thought that most people taking 'bipolar' in its clinical sense were being disingenuous. Apparently not. This certainly doesn't say much for the character of Janeway that she can seriously be discussed this way. But, all right, I'm half buying it--she is flakey.

No, that's not it exactly. I think you have to take into account the history of this particular forum to understand why the question is taken at face value.

I don't think you'd find the same type of response at a different Trek forum. Here, the posts that are critical of Janeway's mental stability have been such that it's just the natural assumption that the OP means quite literally what they are putting down.

History has a way of shaping how we look at these things.

True, this has less to do with Janeway as a character and more to do with the history of the forum. Also, there were some general gender comments in here that if a racial equivalent were given the posters would have been summarily thrown out on their asses by the admin staff.

Look guys - I lead a pretty full life and sitting here handing out warnings is not my idea of a good time. A post telling folks to tone it down is worth a handful of warnings, imo. Now you can take it as well-intentioned attempt to keep the thread open without drama OR you can view it as those in charge keeping you down.

I guess it all depends on if you're a paranoid schizophrenic or not.

 

[Zameaze]

Also, there were some general gender comments in here that if a racial equivalent were given the posters would have been summarily thrown out on their asses by the admin staff.

If you're not being disingenuous and there are some "general gender comments in here," then point them out and warn the individual. Starting an imaginary flame war in order to close a thread would be in poor taste.

 

[brcarthey]

janeway may have been bi, but polar definitely wasn't one of them.

 

[Michael]

No, she was just a victim of inconsistent writing.

Yup, exactly.

 

[Zameaze]

No, she was just a victim of inconsistent writing.

Yup, exactly.

But fictional characters are only what is written. They aren't real entities that can become victims of inconsistent writing--the writing has just made them who they are.

janeway may have been bi, but polar definitely wasn't one of them.

I wish she had been bi or gay--at least that might have made her somewhat interesting.

 

[brokenleg]

I loved her but YES.... sometimes.... other times she was so hardheaded

 

[Michael]

But fictional characters are only what is written.

Which is exactly why Janeway isn't bipolar: The writers didn't write her as a bipolar character. You might interpret her actions that way, but that doesn't mean she was meant to be bipolar.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I don't think Janeway was bipolar, but mainly for the reason that the things 24th-century medicine could do with neuropharmacology would be light-years beyond what we have today. Mental illness would be/should be non-existent.

 

[SpyOne]

A brief disclaimer:
Years ago (when Voyager was still on the air, I believe) I found this posted on a message board (I think it may have been this one). When I sought the original for citation some years later, I could not locate it.
While I did not agree with all of it, I found it amusing. It is a thumbnail psychological evaluation of Kathryn Janeway.
Since it does not originate with me (and I cannot remember who it does originate with), I attribute it to poster "John Doe".
I also appear to have lost the first page of this, so sadly it begins in the middle.

Janeway grew up in an authoritarian household. She rebelled by becoming ultra-authoritarian, thus demonstrating to herself her own superiority over others by her ability to strictly adhere to whatever regimen she adopted.

She is only truly comfortable around passive people. She finds the independence of others threatening to her self-image (that being that she knows better than anyone what everyone should be doing).

Through her dissembling, she managed to keep this trait hidden from her superiors, whom she served like a sycophant (thus her boast about knowing half the Admirals of star fleet on a first name basis in "Think Tank"). Her promotion to Captain was the result of these relationships, not her ability to lead others.

Her real expertise is in the sciences. When she's in a good mood she indulges this expertise with research. This fascination with science often leads her into dangerous situations where she forgets she's not in the alpha quadrant and cannot expect disaster relief in a short time.

However, her ego demands the highest accolades and science doesn't provide enough of them. Janeway expected being Captain to be a short step for her becoming an Admiral. This adventure in the Delta Quad has been very hard on her, for she's not getting the accolades she craves from superiors.
Instead, she's been forced to confront her own crew repeatedly demonstrating her superiority over them. She's grown so used to their disagreement her habit is to follow any instruction with the phrase "That's an order".

She's deathly afraid of losing command, not because she believes she is the only one who can lead them home (though she believes that too), but mostly because she's afraid of coming home and losing her chance for accolades and promotions by not being in command of the ship.

She does not handle crisis well, feeling the pressure to make -a- decision (any decision) rather than looking undecisive. And she is not good at taking advice, for fear that the credit for success will not fall on her.

One of the few influences to survive from her childhood is her desire to be a mother. It is a twisted version of what it was initially, but her frustration with relationships have resulted in her 'adopting' those under her command, interfering with their personal lives on the basis that she is 'mother to the crew'.

Her inability to accept challenge, and her willingness to crush resistance, are demonstrated in "Tuvix, "Thirty Days", and "Equinox, Part II".

 

[SpyOne]

My own take:

Janeway seemed incapable of exhibiting both empathy and command, and had one canon lengthy bout with severe depression (and one in semi-canon apparently, in the aftermath of her father's death). Is she bipolar? I'm not qualified to make that diagnosis, but it is safe to say that I'm concerned.

Edit: I should add that I have known at least one bi-polar person. Which is to say that I have known one person who had been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder and told me so. She was a coworker who was very open about being bipolar, and that she had worked with her doctor to balance her meds so she was a bit on the "manic" side of normal, because she preferred being that way.
She was also over 6 feet tall, and cosplayed as a klingon.
Yes, I worked with a 6 foot bipolar Klingon. (I say that with a lot of love. She found a better job and quit, and I miss her.)
Her meds seemed to be working for her, so I never really got to see the bipolar part: she was chemically stuck in the mode she was in.

 

[Luther Sloan]

*Falls upon his light saber*

Don't be so hard on yourself.
You didn't use the term in malice(you're correct, Janeway has been labeled that by some) and apologized for any misunderstanding behind it. IMO, that speaks allot about your content of character.....and I mean that complimentary.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

[AuntKate]

I don't think some of you were watching the same program I was.

 

[crohnie]

I've briefly known some bipolar people - and most of the time I've seen them at their worst. What I've seen doesn't remind me at all of Janeway. So I wouldn't say she's bipolar.
She definitely has some issues though. I definitely agree with what's be said before: throughout the seven years, Janeway has struggled with major Depression and guilt.

I just don't know how much it is to deal with inconsistent writing. Janeway was one of the few Voyager characters who acted many different ways. If it was just adapting to the environment/situation of the DQ, wouldn't we have seen more characters "adapt"? I think part of the culprit is writers at Paramount who didn't know how to handle Janeway. Like the character bible got thrown out the window mid show.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I think part of the culprit is writers at Paramount who didn't know how to handle Janeway. Like the character bible got thrown out the window mid show.

IMHO, it got thrown out at the end of season 3 for not just Janeway but a lot of the characters on Voyager.

 

[crohnie]

I think part of the culprit is writers at Paramount who didn't know how to handle Janeway. Like the character bible got thrown out the window mid show.

IMHO, it got thrown out at the end of season 3 for not just Janeway but a lot of the characters on Voyager.

Wasn't that when Jeri Taylor left?
She probably knew the characters, especially Janeway the best, considering she shaped/created them.

 

[doubleohfive]

You know, here's the thing. Janeway is really no different than Archer, Kirk, Picard or Sisko.

Each had their own style of command. Yet each also faced various, different scenarios, situations, adventures, and crises. There's no way any one of them could be wholly consistent with how each other would react or handle said crises, let alone be consistent with themselves.

Example:

Poster A has just trolled Poster B. Mods come in and warn Poster A. Poster A protests, he was baited! Too bad, the warning stands.

A few weeks later, Poster B decides he's had enough crap and trolls Poster C elsewhere. The mods come in, review the situation and decide no, this wasn't trolling per se, it was just creative antagonism and that Poster B should knock it off.


The difference between the two examples is all in the context. Janeway, in context, was not bipolar. Janeway, in context, was not consistently written to react to every situation in the same way, either. It's both damning and unpredictable. But bipolar? No.

Though again, I will say that it would make for an interesting viewing experience to re-watch the series, specifically with the intention of assuming Janeway was bipolar and see what kinds of conclusions we could come to regarding the overarching storyline of the series and the ramifications of her actions throughout.

 

[Saquist]

Frankly if Janeway was bipolar then Picard was too in First Contact but the fans loved that.

I don't get the hater-aid alot of the fans have toward Janeway. She might have been the best captain of the series.

Picard lost two ship
Kirk lost one
Sisko lost one...

There were times I didn't agree with Janeways methods but it was her prerogative she didn't violate any more rules than Kirk or Picard.
but Janeway didn't lose one ship...

 

[AuntKate]

Frankly if Janeway was bipolar then Picard was too in First Contact but the fans loved that.

I don't get the hater-aid alot of the fans have toward Janeway. She might have been the best captain of the series.

Picard lost two ship
Kirk lost one
Sisko lost one...

There were times I didn't agree with Janeways methods but it was her prerogative she didn't violate any more rules than Kirk or Picard.
but Janeway didn't lose one ship...

I wonder, at times, if it isn't a self-fulfilling prophecy for some watchers. They have been told that Janeway is "bipolar" or "inconsistent" or "inflexible" and so they watch the episodes and, no big surprise, see what they are looking for. If a person watches the series with no preconceived notions about Janeway, they might be surprised to find that she is very much like the previous male captain, and very like the maverick James Kirk. As is stated in Voyager, the mission finds the captain it needs--and in this case, Janeway had to approach each situation differently.

 

[exodus]

Frankly if Janeway was bipolar then Picard was too in First Contact but the fans loved that.

I don't get the hater-aid alot of the fans have toward Janeway. She might have been the best captain of the series.

Picard lost two ship
Kirk lost one
Sisko lost one...

There were times I didn't agree with Janeways methods but it was her prerogative she didn't violate any more rules than Kirk or Picard.
but Janeway didn't lose one ship...

I wonder, at times, if it isn't a self-fulfilling prophecy for some watchers. They have been told that Janeway is "bipolar" or "inconsistent" or "inflexible" and so they watch the episodes and, no big surprise, see what they are looking for. If a person watches the series with no preconceived notions about Janeway, they might be surprised to find that she is very much like the previous male captain, and very like the maverick James Kirk. As is stated in Voyager, the mission finds the captain it needs--and in this case, Janeway had to approach each situation differently.

True.

Too add to this, often times when Janeway did bend or break her own rules it often came back to bite her in the ass. So it wasn't like she didn't pay consequences for her actions.

Prime example: "Don't give the Kazon any technology because it's dangerous in their hands."
"I'm giving the Hirogen foreign technology."

Guess what, it came back to bite her in the ass and reminded her why she shouldn't share technology to begin with.

"Flesh & Blood": "I'm not going to repremand the Doc. for his transgressions against the crew.
"Renaissanse Man": "Damn, if I had been more stern and repremanded that arrogant trick of light, I wouldn't be a prisoner of the Potato Heads."