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Warpath Discussion Thread (major, major spoilers)

Arghh, too many exclamation points in JeremyW's post! It's stretching out the thread too wide. Could that be edited, please? And is there some way to rewrite the board software so that doesn't happen anymore, i.e. so that things like that are automatically wrapped around to fit the viewer's screen settings?
 
cmdrxeris said:
Nice Jason Bourne quip, didja get that from the films or the books. and on topic, i completely agree

As for the Jason Bourne quip, consider I got it from both. :thumbsup:

Marco, it's never that easy with you, now is it? Either way, :thumbsup: for bringing Iliana Ghemor into the mix.

Christopher, ask and you shall receive :thumbsup:

Dave, I'll re-read that chapter and get it all flat. The Orb Bracelet...I'll acknowledge I didn't get it done by when I said I will. I'll have a response when I get home.

It's funny with all these Kira Nerys' running around. Wow...so many analogies and comparisons I can draw. The Manchurian Candidate, The Bourne Identity, The Phantom Of The Opera, and now even Final Fantasy VII comes to mind...this book is awesome. I love it.
 
Well, I'm back from Chicago, and as such, I promised an answer regarding the Orb Bracelet and all that jazz...and it's funny that I missed it before. Considering how plain and simple it was in front of me the entire time. At first, I thought that:

Intendant Kira was the one who had the bracelet, and as such when Iliana killed her, took it for herself, upon learning of it. Instead, Intendant Kira and Iliana are after the same thing, only having different approaches to it. In the Mirror Universe, Intendant Kira and Ke Hovath use science to access the multiverse, but in our universe, Iliana acquired the Orb Bracelet based upon the information that she learned from Ke Hovath before killing him.

Now that I have that flat, I re-read what happened in Grennokar, and get how Iliana was manipulating Taran'atar...the last piece of the puzzle is how the Intendant thought she was the one calling the shots...I still stand by the fact that Iliana left the proverbial breadcrumbs for the Intendant to follow so willingly, unless there's something else that's totally being missed, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Mirror Iliana doesn't appear to be who she is either...I smell a rat ;)

Anywho, I'm going to put "Warpath" aside for awhile, breathe, and then go back at it again, re-reading the earlier novels, especially those that I thought were really unimportant to the storyline. There's some stuff I'm clearly missing.

And I'm very clear that I don't read previous posts before posting again...almost half of what I said is irrelevant at this moment of time, and I wasn't too present to what has been contributed. I apologize if this has detraced from the quality of the conversation.
 
David Mack said:
Nicely done. Here's a cookie. :)

Wow! I got a cookie from Mack The Knife! That's freakin' sweet! I'll put it next to the :thumbsup: I received from Dayton Ward after I put his dreams of a Golden Hoshi into existence.

But in a more serious tone, thanks for the conversation up to this point everyone. It's been thought provoking, fun, and a celebration of "Deep Space Nine" at its very best.
 
Do the orbs exist in the Mirror Universe? I ask this because I wonder if there is a counter to the orb fragment bracelet in the Mirror Universe that just hasn't been found yet? Maybe something to do with powering the machine Ke Hovath came up with?
 
^ As I understand it, no. I'd assert that in the episode where the Intendant and the Mirror Bareil attempt to steal an Orb from OUR universe who demonstrate that Bajor does not have the Tears of the Prophets in the other universe. Then again, I doubt the Alliance has taken the time to explore the wormhole where they found Kira and Bashir in the 2nd Season of DS9....but the more and more I talk about this, the more and more I'm left speculating that "Fearful Symmetry" may answer a lot of these questions, and possibly more.
 
Why of why do we have to wait until April to get the second part continuation of the best damned book thats been put out this year?

Mister Mack, you are the Mack Daddy of authors. This is the best book I've read in a long time.
 
I just finished Warpath at about 10 this morning and all I have to say is, A-FREAKING-MAZING. It is one of the best Star Trek books i've read, hell, make that one of the best books in general.

I just have one question: Who was contoling Big T, Iliana or the Intendant?
 
^ Re-read JeremyW's posts in the preceding pages of this thread, and I think that will become clear to you.... ;)
 
Ahhhhhh, it was Iliana. Let me just add that I can't wait for Fearful Symetry, and would appreciate any info you guys have on it.
 
I hope folk’n’ll forgive me, but I’ve been trying to stay spoiler free and have not read any of the posts above; however, I just finished (like, thirty minutes ago) Warpath and want to put down my thoughts will everything is fresh and jumbled. As such, there’s probably going to be a fair amount of repetition, since I’m so late to the reading.

If there’s a single word that can describe Warpath, it is this: driven. Warpath hits the ground running from where the cliffhanger at the end of Olympus Descending leaves off and steams ahead full, barely squeezing in a few softer scenes edgewise to let you catch your breath before cracking some more 2x4s over the reader’s head. Throughout the novel, we spend our time diving in and out of a goodly number of plot threads, and it’s a testament to the author’s skill that not a single one of these threads drags or makes one feel as though we’d much rather be following one of the other threads. Even those threads that only seem tangentially related to the main thrust (pun intended) of the plot are no less entertaining because of the intrigue, the action, and the vividness of the scenes, actions and characters involved.

Some random points:

When I saw that we were heading for a Cardassian prison, I told myself: “Well, I guess this means we’ll be seeing Tom Riker, Sito Jaxa, or both.” And what do I get? Nada. Well done. I’m glad my expectations were dashed, because I think it otherwise would have been too predictable. Besides, I’m not sure I ever want to see Sito Jaxa again. Not that she wasn’t interesting, but the fiction has been pleasantly resurrection-free of late, and I’d like it to remain that way. (Of course, they’re not off Harkoum yet…)

Good job on the Ro/Quark thing. Such an odd pairing, but every writer has so far managed to make it quite believable. A good way to rope in a non-combatant like Quark into an action-oriented storyline, too, however brief their scenes might have been.

Good job, also, on the Kira vision sequences. It was actually fun to get some sword and siege-craft in the middle of a sci-fi novel without it seeming contrived. That, too, was a well-enacted sequence. I could just hear the music from the siege of Helm’s Deep thrumming in the background as I read the chapter where the Ascendants assault.

Dense as I am, it actually took me a while to figure out that some of the regulars were participating in the vision. Jamin fell into place first, then I noticed the anagram of Laren, then deciphered Vaughn’s, and Bashir was easy by the time he showed up. But (I’m terrible at anagrams), I just couldn’t figure who Nantech was supposed to be… Help? Also, was the name of the fortress in reference to something else? Couldn’t unscramble that one either…

I was actually surprised, given the hints we’ve been seeing in the fiction about a connection between the Prophets, Bajor and the Hebitian culture on Cardassia, that there would no Cardassians in Kira’s wormhole visions when we saw the different paths. Perhaps that would be tipping your hand too early? I like the idea of the Cardassians as wayward children of the Prophets. It adds another tragic layer to the already dreadful story of the Occupation, that the rape of Bajor was unintentionally incestuous. Anyway, I know Jamin said in the vision that they would need allies to defeat the Ascendants. I was thinking perhaps that would be the Cardassians (though they are a rather third-rate power this soon after the war), or perhaps an Odo-controlled Dominion. I guess the Federation will be helping in the Eav’oq’s stand… granted, they are an unaligned species, and the Federation just got out of a large-scale conflict, but the alternative is having the Gamma terminus of the wormhole fall into the hands of a hostile species, and Bajor could easily be next on the Ascendant hit-list.

The commando raid scene on Harkoum just didn’t do it for me. Sorry; but I found myself glazing over paragraphs as Vaughn’s team was moving in. Perhaps I just don’t have a good appreciate of the tactics therein, but I found I didn’t really care for what was happening because I didn’t know who these characters were. There were several of them, but other than a few mentions of species, gender and specialization, nothing much to distinguish one from the other. I don’t know if you had, at some point, intended to flesh them out more but didn’t due to size or pacing, but the actions of ciphers are, to me, easily summed up by sentences like “They went about their tasks with skill and dedication.” I was pleased to see that “The security officer from ‘Rocks and Shoals’ who was perplexingly still alive at the end of the episode” made a return, however.

Prynn Tenmei. I really liked her character before, because I thought she was complex and sympathetic. Now that I see what she's like under pressure, and how much rear-end she is capable of kicking if cornered... :drool:

Illiana Ghemor. Wow, what an obscure reference. Had to look her up. Sure addresses the question of why she looked like Kira, but what made you guys think of her in the first place?

It took a year to get to here from the cliffhanger at the end of Olympus… and we end on a distinctly unresolved note, promising more hellfire on the horizon. Then I see how long we’re going to have to wait for Fearful Symmetry. Now, David, Marco, be honest… you don’t care in the slightest about our mental health, do you?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
David Mack said:
^ Re-read JeremyW's posts in the preceding pages of this thread, and I think that will become clear to you.... ;)
Ens. Brodsky said:
Ahhhhhh, it was Iliana. Let me just add that I can't wait for Fearful Symetry, and would appreciate any info you guys have on it.
But the Intendant thought that she was in control, right? Iliana usurped the plan out from under her?
 
Trent,

Thanks for your detailed and appreciative review of Warpath. I hope you'll take the time to read through the rest of this thread from the beginning, now that you've finished the book. Many of your questions about minor points have been previously asked and answered.

When I saw that we were heading for a Cardassian prison, I told myself: “Well, I guess this means we’ll be seeing Tom Riker, Sito Jaxa, or both.”
I'll confess that the notion of involving Sito Jaxa was briefly toyed with early in the story development process, but I quickly decided that to resurrect her without an amazingly good reason would cheapen the sacrifice she made in "Lower Decks." I had always loved that episode for the darkness and tragedy of its ending, and I didn't want to undo it just for "surprise value."

I could just hear the music from the siege of Helm’s Deep thrumming in the background as I read the chapter where the Ascendants assault.
Well, I was actually listening to the second and third tracks on the King Arthur soundtrack by Hans Zimmer, but yes -- you're in the ballpark, and I appreciate your implied compliment. :)

But (I’m terrible at anagrams), I just couldn’t figure who Nantech was supposed to be… Help? Also, was the name of the fortress in reference to something else? Couldn’t unscramble that one either…
Nathech is an anagram for ch'Thane (as in Thirishar, aka Shar). As for the origin of Parek Tonn, that and many other details are covered in the online author's annotations.

Anyway, I know Jamin said in the vision that they would need allies to defeat the Ascendants. I was thinking perhaps that would be ... an Odo-controlled Dominion.
And for being the first person I know of to raise the scenario that I was thinking of when I wrote the scene, I give you . . . a cookie. :D

Prynn Tenmei. I really liked her character before, because I thought she was complex and sympathetic. Now that I see what she's like under pressure, and how much rear-end she is capable of kicking if cornered...
When I was working on the story outline for Warpath, one bit of guidance that Marco offered me with regard to Prynn is that she is, in his words, "a spitfire." My original proposal had made her too passive in the story; following his suggestion, I approached all her scenes with the understanding that this is a woman of moxy. :)


Illiana Ghemor. Wow, what an obscure reference. Had to look her up. Sure addresses the question of why she looked like Kira, but what made you guys think of her in the first place?
You'll have to ask Marco; he'd been laying the ground work on that revelation for several stories prior to Warpath. I was just lucky enough to be the one who got to write the "payoff moment."

Now, David, Marco, be honest… you don’t care in the slightest about our mental health, do you?
It's not high on my list of priorities, no.

Glad you enjoyed Warpath, Trent. Thanks for taking the time to share your comments!

Best,
Dave
 
Illiana Ghemor. Wow, what an obscure reference.
Really? Wow. "Second Skin" was a major episode, and it even had a follow up in another major episode, "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night." I'm really surprised to see her referred to as "obscure"....
 
David Mack said:
I hope you'll take the time to read through the rest of this thread from the beginning, now that you've finished the book. Many of your questions about minor points have been previously asked and answered.

I've been doing so. I'm done with the thread (lots of interesting perspectives), and have been consulting the annotations. I'm not proud to admit that there's actually a couple of aspects of this novel others mentioned that actually went over my head. I'm not going to mention what, exactly, but... yeah. :o

And for being the first person I know of to raise the scenario that I was thinking of when I wrote the scene, I give you . . . a cookie. :D

Mmm... chocolate chip...

When I was working on the story outline for Warpath, one bit of guidance that Marco offered me with regard to Prynn is that she is, in his words, "a spitfire." My original proposal had made her too passive in the story; following his suggestion, I approached all her scenes with the understanding that this is a woman of moxy. :)

Good choice. :thumbsup:

You'll have to ask Marco; he'd been laying the ground work on that revelation for several stories prior to Warpath. I was just lucky enough to be the one who got to write the "payoff moment."p

Hmm... I now know it was Illiana who was responsible for the destruction of Sidau in Fragments and Omens. Can't think of anything else in terms of foreshadowing at the moment, though, as I said upthread, dense.

KRAD said:
Really? Wow. "Second Skin" was a major episode, and it even had a follow up in another major episode, "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night." I'm really surprised to see her referred to as "obscure"....

Major in term of Kira's character development, yes, and I quite remember how it helped her progress beyond her assumptions about Cardassians. But "The name of Alon Ghemor's daughter whom Kira was surgically altered to resemble" seems like a footnote or trivia question to me. Then again, I've never been good with names (as evidence by the number of misspellings I now spot in the review post upthread, despite being only shortly off the book itself).

EDIT: By the way, I just checked the records because something seemed off, and it turns out that the episode where Ghemor shows up again is actually entitled "Ties of Blood and Water". "Wrongs Darker..." is about her mother and Dukat. Easy to get those two titles confused.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
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