Warpath Discussion Thread (major, major spoilers)
- Thread starter Brendan Moody
- Start date
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
Why am I always the last to get anything? I just finished this book last night and I very much get the impression that I'm the last kid to get picked for the dodgeball teams. Well, instead of seperating myself out from the pack and starting another review thread for Warpath, I suppose I'll just post in here.
That said...I don't know that there's much else to say. I've read this entire thread (skimming through some of the off-topic stuff) and I find many of my questions answered and most of my comments made for me. Makes me think I should have written a review before sitting down to read this monster.
My thoughts very much jive with almost everyone else's in here. In fact, we've already had some words I was planning to use: driven, gripping, awesome, fantastic. The prose was graceful and elegant, almost poetic in its way, while still maintaining the necessarily fast pace. When I was done, I felt like I had been speeding down a highway at 150 mph. I actually found myself so juiced up that I had to pace the living room/bedroom/kitchen just so I could keep up with the action. I couldn't sit still on the couch.
Something that probably lessened my confusion with a lot of the book was that I had been accidentally spoiled that the "Cardassian woman" was Iliana. However, that statement alone was not enough to thoroughly spoil it for me, and there was still a healthy dose of amazement in the last pages. Confusion still held sway until after reading through this thread. Thanks everyone, especially David Mack, Marco Palmieri, and JeremyW for laying things out in a more lucid fashion.
The Kira visions were very well-done, I thought, though it took me a couple chapters of them to figure out that it was all a Prophet-vision. And even then, I didn't figure out who the other generals were until Jamin was described. And then you guys alerted me to the anagrams. Totally bowled over, let me tell you. I think of those chapters even more highly now, and I'd like to bring up an idea that I haven't seen discussed yet (probably because I'm way off-base with it, but let's roll...)
The Prophet-vision featured a conversation where the main metaphor was revealed: the three species that have been touched by the Prophets have built very different cultures on the same foundations, and are on paths that will intersect with each other for precisely that reason. Because the cultural construction for each race has been different, this will obviously lead to conflict. Now, my idea is that this ties in *thematically* if not narratively with the events of the rest of the book. Three cultures with the same foundations; three women (Kiras) with the same features. In both cases, the three are headed for a collision. I was wondering if the Prophet-vision was meant as an intentional thematic link between the Kira storyline and the Ea'voq (sic)/Ascendants/Bajoran storyline (since the vision foreshadows that narrative).
I also thought that the very idea of things headed on a collision course was embodied in the vision to specifically tie in with this particular book. As others have said, the book is incredibly driven, and it does feature different narrative lines which eventually intersect and come together. So the vision feels very appropriate, almost as if in those chapters we step back and see what's going on both thematically and plot-wise. This is possibly my favourite part of the book.
And now a final word of praise, not just for Warpath, but for the entire DS9 Relaunch. It has taken me about a year to catch up, and now that I have...it feels astounding. It reminds me of why DS9 was my favourite Star Trek series: events tie together, arcs resolved over a period of time, characters are not forgotten, and actions have consequences. DS9 was--and, apparently, still is--an incredible epic mythology all on its own, which makes it a wonderful addition to the larger mythos of the Trek universe. Congratulations to Marco and all the authors who have endeavoured to carry on the series. You guys have been doing an incredible job. Keep up the good work.
Now to get caught up on TNG......
Why am I always the last to get anything? I just finished this book last night and I very much get the impression that I'm the last kid to get picked for the dodgeball teams. Well, instead of seperating myself out from the pack and starting another review thread for Warpath, I suppose I'll just post in here.
That said...I don't know that there's much else to say. I've read this entire thread (skimming through some of the off-topic stuff) and I find many of my questions answered and most of my comments made for me. Makes me think I should have written a review before sitting down to read this monster.
My thoughts very much jive with almost everyone else's in here. In fact, we've already had some words I was planning to use: driven, gripping, awesome, fantastic. The prose was graceful and elegant, almost poetic in its way, while still maintaining the necessarily fast pace. When I was done, I felt like I had been speeding down a highway at 150 mph. I actually found myself so juiced up that I had to pace the living room/bedroom/kitchen just so I could keep up with the action. I couldn't sit still on the couch.
Something that probably lessened my confusion with a lot of the book was that I had been accidentally spoiled that the "Cardassian woman" was Iliana. However, that statement alone was not enough to thoroughly spoil it for me, and there was still a healthy dose of amazement in the last pages. Confusion still held sway until after reading through this thread. Thanks everyone, especially David Mack, Marco Palmieri, and JeremyW for laying things out in a more lucid fashion.
The Kira visions were very well-done, I thought, though it took me a couple chapters of them to figure out that it was all a Prophet-vision. And even then, I didn't figure out who the other generals were until Jamin was described. And then you guys alerted me to the anagrams. Totally bowled over, let me tell you. I think of those chapters even more highly now, and I'd like to bring up an idea that I haven't seen discussed yet (probably because I'm way off-base with it, but let's roll...)
The Prophet-vision featured a conversation where the main metaphor was revealed: the three species that have been touched by the Prophets have built very different cultures on the same foundations, and are on paths that will intersect with each other for precisely that reason. Because the cultural construction for each race has been different, this will obviously lead to conflict. Now, my idea is that this ties in *thematically* if not narratively with the events of the rest of the book. Three cultures with the same foundations; three women (Kiras) with the same features. In both cases, the three are headed for a collision. I was wondering if the Prophet-vision was meant as an intentional thematic link between the Kira storyline and the Ea'voq (sic)/Ascendants/Bajoran storyline (since the vision foreshadows that narrative).
I also thought that the very idea of things headed on a collision course was embodied in the vision to specifically tie in with this particular book. As others have said, the book is incredibly driven, and it does feature different narrative lines which eventually intersect and come together. So the vision feels very appropriate, almost as if in those chapters we step back and see what's going on both thematically and plot-wise. This is possibly my favourite part of the book.
And now a final word of praise, not just for Warpath, but for the entire DS9 Relaunch. It has taken me about a year to catch up, and now that I have...it feels astounding. It reminds me of why DS9 was my favourite Star Trek series: events tie together, arcs resolved over a period of time, characters are not forgotten, and actions have consequences. DS9 was--and, apparently, still is--an incredible epic mythology all on its own, which makes it a wonderful addition to the larger mythos of the Trek universe. Congratulations to Marco and all the authors who have endeavoured to carry on the series. You guys have been doing an incredible job. Keep up the good work.
Now to get caught up on TNG......
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
^ Thanks for your comments, S. Gomez. To briefly answer your question, you guessed correctly --- the structure of the story as a whole, and in particular Kira's pagh-tem-far vision, is meant to evoke the sense of destinies on a collision course. The Bajoran/Eav'oq/Ascendant storyline is directly related to events in the Worlds of Deep Space Nine books, as well as to Rising Son. And it might be more directly connected to the other running stories of the saga than you think....
...but you'll have to wait for Fearful Symmetry to find out for certain.
^ Thanks for your comments, S. Gomez. To briefly answer your question, you guessed correctly --- the structure of the story as a whole, and in particular Kira's pagh-tem-far vision, is meant to evoke the sense of destinies on a collision course. The Bajoran/Eav'oq/Ascendant storyline is directly related to events in the Worlds of Deep Space Nine books, as well as to Rising Son. And it might be more directly connected to the other running stories of the saga than you think....
...but you'll have to wait for Fearful Symmetry to find out for certain.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
You're welcome, David.
Oh, I forgot to ask in my original post: Dax talks about the new Luna-class starships, and Sisko says those are a few years away. That class of starship is what the Titan is, right? I'm getting confused as to where in the general timeline all these books fall, and how the DS9 series and TNG series relate to each other chronologically. (I haven't yet read the new TNG books, so if we could keep this spoiler-free it would be nice.)
This is why I'm desperately awaiting the new Timeline in November, with Voyages of Imagination...
You're welcome, David.
Oh, I forgot to ask in my original post: Dax talks about the new Luna-class starships, and Sisko says those are a few years away. That class of starship is what the Titan is, right? I'm getting confused as to where in the general timeline all these books fall, and how the DS9 series and TNG series relate to each other chronologically. (I haven't yet read the new TNG books, so if we could keep this spoiler-free it would be nice.)
This is why I'm desperately awaiting the new Timeline in November, with Voyages of Imagination...
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
^That line is indeed a reference to Titan's class.
Warpath is set in early 2377. Taking Wing is set in late 2379. Each date is in the Historian's Notes of their respective books.
Thanks for the comments on Warpath and the DS9 fiction in general.
^That line is indeed a reference to Titan's class.
Warpath is set in early 2377. Taking Wing is set in late 2379. Each date is in the Historian's Notes of their respective books.
Thanks for the comments on Warpath and the DS9 fiction in general.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
^^
There was also an appearance by Titan's future science officer, Jaza Najem, in WoDS9's Bajor story.
^^
There was also an appearance by Titan's future science officer, Jaza Najem, in WoDS9's Bajor story.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
^Yup. That was, in fact, the story in which the character was introduced.
^Yup. That was, in fact, the story in which the character was introduced.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
You know, now that you mention it...I'm not sure I remember anymore. With Titan, I recall that we thought it'd be interesting to have a profoundly spiritual science officer. With Fragments and Omens, we were trying to show the different ways in which Bajorans were responding to Federation membership, including officers of the Militia who were interested in pursuing a Starfleet career offworld. These were separate agendas that we realized could be served by the same character (and also help to reinforce the interconnectivity of the fiction), but I no longer recall with certainty at what point that was decided. Only that it seemed like a neat idea.
You know, now that you mention it...I'm not sure I remember anymore. With Titan, I recall that we thought it'd be interesting to have a profoundly spiritual science officer. With Fragments and Omens, we were trying to show the different ways in which Bajorans were responding to Federation membership, including officers of the Militia who were interested in pursuing a Starfleet career offworld. These were separate agendas that we realized could be served by the same character (and also help to reinforce the interconnectivity of the fiction), but I no longer recall with certainty at what point that was decided. Only that it seemed like a neat idea.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
Nah, I just wear earplugs so it doesn't leak out.
It would likely involve too much random profanity to make clear reading.
Nah, I just wear earplugs so it doesn't leak out.
...so one day you can write a memoir about your involvement with Trek books?
It would likely involve too much random profanity to make clear reading.
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
Random Profanity: The Marco Palmieri Story
Random Profanity: The Marco Palmieri Story
Re: To David Mack, About Warpath
Would it be ebook or paperback?
:runs for cover:
David Mack said:
Random Profanity: The Marco Palmieri Story
Would it be ebook or paperback?
:runs for cover:
I'm breaking my own profanity rule to say this... but I love this post... I just...
Aim for the head!
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Or maybe you really didn't... maybe you just "spark-notes"-ed it... Ah hah!! Caught you!!
Maybe the Jem'Hadar have better taste in women then you gave them credit for?
But I like how the points you brought out were dealt with in FS, I wasn't sure they'd be explained so well. And somehow Taran'atar looks less crazy than some other people.
A brickheaded idiot and a guy that acts out of the "goodness of his hearts" ... hilarious and anatomically correct.
This is awesome!
But since FS came out during the summer, it looks like people are just catching up to it, and we can't have them forgetting about Warpath!!!
Maybe the Jem'Hadar have better taste in women then you gave them credit for?
But I like how the points you brought out were dealt with in FS, I wasn't sure they'd be explained so well. And somehow Taran'atar looks less crazy than some other people.
A brickheaded idiot and a guy that acts out of the "goodness of his hearts" ... hilarious and anatomically correct.
This is awesome! But since FS came out during the summer, it looks like people are just catching up to it, and we can't have them forgetting about Warpath!!!
Committing some thread necromancy to share that Alvaro Zinos-Amaro has posted a new review of WARPATH over on the tor.com blog, as part of his ongoing review series of the Post-Finale Deep Space Nine novels.
Finished this book last week, loved it! Action scenes by David Mack are always brilliant.
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