Warner bros announce superhero films through 2020

[M.A.C.O.]

True. There was no need to bring in Elfman, though. The score was the most disappointing thing about the film to me.

Elfman was Whedon's choice. Elfman had done the score for Age of Ultron. And with Snyder having bowed out due to his personal tragedy, Whedon made JL more his movie. Junkie XL (who did the music for BvS, along with Hans Zimmer's MOS music) had already scored JL. He was fired and replaced by Elfman.

The music was pretty weak though. Like Berman era Trek music. Not meant to distract the audience from what happening on screen.

 

[Timby]

True. There was no need to bring in Elfman, though. The score was the most disappointing thing about the film to me.

Elfman hasn't done a good score since, I don't know, Spider-Man 2? (And even that lifts heavily from Batman Returns.)

 

[dahj]

* Have no clear plans for the structure of the DCEU by constantly changing the lineup of movies.

Well, the initial slate was released with the idea of having Snyder's Superman to Justice League saga at the center of it, and then have a bunch of director driven solo movies on the side. The "plan" was not to have a tightly mapped out plan, so as to give the directors freedom to do what they wanted with their movies and in that way differentiate themselves from the MCU.

It was a good idea, but then the ridiculously toxic overreaction to BvS happened, which triggered a panicky overreaction on the part of WB execs and we are where we are. In an attempt to broaden the appeal of Justice League, they both failed to convince people who disliked previous movies to turn up, and they managed to piss off a lot their existing fanbase in the process.

But despite of all that, they're still actually in a rather good position for the future. Coming up they have two movies that aren't under pressure to be huge(but still could turn out to be breakout hits) in Aquaman and Shazam!, and they have two "safe" hits in Wonder Woman 2 and The Batman.
They're even back on track with their original "director driven" idea. James Wan, Patty Jenkins and Matt Reevees have enough clout to assure themselves creative freedom(and I doubt they'd bother David Sandberg much either considering Shazam! isn't exactly a tentpole picture .)

 

[crookeddy]

Well, that one was unavoidable, since Snyder had to withdraw for personal reasons. Reshoots are a normal part of big-budget filmmaking these days, and the loss of their director required bringing in someone else.

Check this out: https://www.thewrap.com/lets-try-to...k-snyders-version-of-justice-league-was-like/

If this guy is right - and his theories make a lot of sense, what we got isn't just reshoots - its an entirely different movie cut together with pieces of the original.

 

[Gaith]

I sure hope those bonuses are tied into the performance of the movie.

Indeed. No net profit, no bonus. Man, is our economy messed up, in just about every industry: once you're at the CEO level, it's virtually impossible not to make tens of millions in bonuses, no matter how badly you fail.

Well, the initial slate was released with the idea of having Snyder's Superman to Justice League saga at the center of it, and then have a bunch of director driven solo movies on the side. The "plan" [...] was a good idea

No. I don't care if Darkseid preceded Thanos in comics history - the whole world knew, starting in summer '12, that the MCU was building to an epic confrontation with Thanos, and the big Justice League plan, as formulated after 2013's MoS, was clearly for a two-part epic: the first featuring an evil reincarnated Superman, and building to a Darkseid confrontation in the second part, which would releasing next fall at the earliest, after Marvel's Infinity War (Part One) that same summer. In other words, Snyder's grand plan was to spend two whole movies even after MoS portraying Superman as an unlikable dick/villain, and then top it all off with a rehash of the MCU's latest mega-event finale.

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In other words, Mistake One was hiring a guy not at all suited for a Superman movie to both direct a Superman movie and lay the groundwork for the DCEU. Mistake Two was to double-down on his Grand (bad) Vision after MoS. Mistake Three was to do a villain team-up movie with zero established DCEU villains. Mistake Four was to assume general audiences would be ready for another superhero flick, particularly one this messy and rushed, less than two weeks after Thor: Ragnarok opened, instead of pushing it to March or early February. (If they had to go up against an MCU movie, at least go up against the less well-established Black Panther.) Mistake Five is... well, stay tuned.

One can plausibly argue WB should have stuck to their guns and done the evil resurrected Supes even after the critical failure of BvS, betting that audiences would reward a dark and grim movie if done this time, just as they did The Dark Knight. (Indeed, if there was ever a time for an evil, corrupted Superman, oh boy howdy, is this it.) But, make no mistake: this was a multi-flavored bad plan to start with.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Indeed. No net profit, no bonus. Man, is our economy messed up, in just about every industry: once you're at the CEO level, it's virtually impossible not to make tens of millions in bonuses, no matter how badly you fail.

No. I don't care if Darkseid preceded Thanos in comics history - the whole world knew, starting in summer '12, that the MCU was building to an epic confrontation with Thanos, and the big Justice League plan, as formulated after 2013's MoS, was clearly for a two-part epic: the first featuring an evil reincarnated Superman, and building to a Darkseid confrontation in the second part, which would releasing next fall at the earliest, after Marvel's Infinity War (Part One) that same summer. In other words, Snyder's grand plan was to spend two whole movies even after MoS portraying Superman as an unlikable dick/villain, and then top it all off with a rehash of the MCU's latest mega-event finale.

In other words, Mistake One was hiring a guy not at all suited for a Superman movie to both direct a Superman movie and lay the groundwork for the DCEU. Mistake Two was to double-down on his Grand (bad) Vision after MoS. Mistake Three was to do a villain team-up movie with zero established DCEU villains. Mistake Four was to assume general audiences would be ready for another superhero flick, particularly one this messy and rushed, less than two weeks after Thor: Ragnarok opened, instead of pushing it to March or early February. (If they had to go up against an MCU movie, at least go up against the less well-established Black Panther.) Mistake Five is... well, stay tuned.

One can plausibly argue WB should have stuck to their guns and done the evil resurrected Supes even after the critical failure of BvS, betting that audiences would reward a dark and grim movie if done this time, just as they did The Dark Knight. (Indeed, if there was ever a time for an evil, corrupted Superman, oh boy howdy, is this it.) But, make no mistake: this was a multi-flavored bad plan to start with.

+1.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Personally I thought that Elfman beat all the DCEU composers easily, by at least being memorable. The only good DCEU composition before Elfman is the WW theme, besides that its all the same bland noise that DC has been doing since the Nolan series. Elfman's on JL wasn't iconic like his Batman work, but it was decent and really his few uses of bits of his Batman work were some of the best musical moments, to me, in the DCEU.

I've found every modern superhero adaptation score to be lifeless, with no heart, save for the majority of The Winter Soldier's because it was playing more on the personal, and not the "wall of noise" / "its BIG" style of composing.

Well, the initial slate was released with the idea of having Snyder's Superman to Justice League saga at the center of it, and then have a bunch of director driven solo movies on the side. The "plan" was not to have a tightly mapped out plan, so as to give the directors freedom to do what they wanted with their movies and in that way differentiate themselves from the MCU.

It was a good idea, but then the ridiculously toxic overreaction to BvS happened, which triggered a panicky overreaction on the part of WB execs and we are where we are.

Yes, it was a good idea, and the majority of the DCEU has its own, distinctive identity, which should never bleed over into aping the MCU.

But despite of all that, they're still actually in a rather good position for the future. Coming up they have two movies that aren't under pressure to be huge(but still could turn out to be breakout hits) in Aquaman and Shazam!, and they have two "safe" hits in Wonder Woman 2 and The Batman.
They're even back on track with their original "director driven" idea. James Wan, Patty Jenkins and Matt Reevees have enough clout to assure themselves creative freedom(and I doubt they'd bother David Sandberg much either considering Shazam! isn't exactly a tentpole picture .)

Good analysis.

 

[Takeru]

They're even back on track with their original "director driven" idea. James Wan, Patty Jenkins and Matt Reevees have enough clout to assure themselves creative freedom(and I doubt they'd bother David Sandberg much either considering Shazam! isn't exactly a tentpole picture .)

So they're abandoning the DCEU? Because you can't have director driven movies and a interconnected universe at the same time, that has to be studio driven.

 

[dahj]

So they're abandoning the DCEU?

No.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I think some people have different definitions of what a shared universe needs to mean. For many years in DC Comics these characters always existed in the same universe. But they only interacted with each other when it suited the stories. Which usually happened in the specific Justice League title or big company wide crossover events.

Otherwise the characters solo titles mostly focused on their own corner of that world, universe and unique supporting cast. The greater DC universe would be used for names drops. Maybe the Daily Planet being read in non Superman books as an example.

I do not see the problem with the solo movies following the same pattern. I would greatly prefer it. It's only been in recent years that DC Comics treats its universe as a very small world. That almost every story is a crossover. That you can not do a Superman story without fitting Batman into it. It's like the old Super Friends cartoons were the characters were rarely seen not being around other costumed heroes. With their own human, civilian supporting cast being marginalized.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Yeah, I mean when Star Trek TNG & DS9 were airing at the same time (or DS9 & VOY), there might be the odd guest appearance or reference to the sister show but there was no great interconnectedness. Ditto Buffy and Angel.

 

[Christopher]

So they're abandoning the DCEU? Because you can't have director driven movies and a interconnected universe at the same time, that has to be studio driven.

No -- as Dick Whitman said, they're just not going to have every single film be closely connected. There will be a central thread with the JL films but otherwise the characters' solo films will take their own paths, like Wonder Woman did.

The mistake that most movie studios have made is in assuming that a shared universe has to be closely and constantly interconnected. It doesn't. There's room in a shared universe for separate, standalone stories, different characters leading their own lives in different parts of the world. Crossovers should be a special event, not a mandatory default. Movies that care more about setting up sequels and crossovers than they do about telling their own stories have proven time and again to be a bad idea -- Amazing Spider-Man 2, Batman v Superman, the recent remake of The Mummy. Even Iron Man 2 and parts of Age of Ultron suffered from this. WB is wise to let each film's makers focus on their own film and what it needs to be a good story in its own right. Crossovers and team-ups should supplement the individual films, not undermine them.

Look at the Arrowverse on TV -- usually, the shows follow their own distinct paths with little overlap and tell stories that go in different directions. Arrow has the Star City government treating vigilantes as outlaws while The Flash has the Central City Police working hand in hand with superheroes. Legends of Tomorrow has the characters trying to fix a broken timeline while the reality of the other shows is unaffected by the timeline changes (although a timeline change in The Flash last year did have ripples in Arrow and Legends). Supergirl isn't even set in the same universe as the others. And yet they do cross over from time to time, and they just did a huge crossover miniseries that united all four casts. And that unification was special because it wasn't something they do all the time.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ The Legends' activities having no effect on Arrow and The Flash isn't a good thing.

 

[dahj]

Legends explained in the season premiere why there was no effect on the Flash and Arrow timeline.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I wouldn't know, because the way last season ended with Legends killed my interest in the show, and by extension The Flash and Arrow, and so, aside from the crossover and John Constantine's upcoming guest appearances on Legends, I'm consequently not watching any of those series this season.

 

[JD]

What was so bad that you stopped watching Legends, Flash, and Arrow? I could see stopping Legends, but it seems a bit extreme to stop watching all three.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It was when the Legends broke time. Apparently that invalidated everything on every single show for some reason, even though Rip and his Time Bureau fixed that particular Cliffhanger mess in just a few minutes time.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I like Arrow, Flash & Supergirl (I particularly like that my oldest daughter enjoys Supergirl and we watch it together) but I found the last season of LOT a bit of a bore. A shame, because the cast are likeable and I’ve always liked Brandon Routh in particular.

 

[Christopher]

It was when the Legends broke time. Apparently that invalidated everything on every single show for some reason, even though Rip and his Time Bureau fixed that particular Cliffhanger mess in just a few minutes time.

Yeah. As I recall, I predicted in response to DigificWriter's concerns that, rather than the whole timeline being rewritten, we'd probably just get individual people or objects being displaced in time and needing to be sent back. And that turned out to be exactly what they actually did.

 

[JD]

It was when the Legends broke time. Apparently that invalidated everything on every single show for some reason, even though Rip and his Time Bureau fixed that particular Cliffhanger mess in just a few minutes time.

I see, I knew from the way things played out in the past that it wouldn't have an effect on the other shows.