Spoilers WandaVision discussion thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    For the same reason the Enterprise is often the only Federation starship within range of a major crisis. Plot convenience and the needs of the story.

    ;)
     
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  2. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Unless it's the DS9 TV series because during the Dominion War the Enterprise was anywhere but the front lines... ;)
     
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  3. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Well, right, because that show wasn't about the Enterprise. Instead it was the Defiant that was always in the right place for the plot convenience. Same idea, different ship. ;)
     
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  4. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Did that start already?
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I passed out watching episode 3 last night.

    Interesting but barely funny.
     
  6. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm so far behind...
     
  7. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, there were actually more front lines than just the ones shown on screen, so that's really just a baseless assumption.
     
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  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was until we got Insurrection, which specifically said that the Enterprise had not been fighting in the war, and was just "putting out brush fires".
     
  9. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wasn't the line about them putting out brush fires *during the time period immediately surrounding that movie* (and therefore not for the entire war)?

    Don't recall with certainty, but that's the way I remember it. In any case, I know the novels found a way around all that (though I haven't read it all personally) and gave the ENT-D a respectable war record, so whatever their justification may have been there was clearly enough wiggle room for it to not just be on the sidelines the whole war.
     
  10. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Did it? I don't see that.

    During Insurrection, which took place after the war (after the battle of cardassia and the surrender of the founder), the Federation was dealing with brushfires (territorial disputes) and the Enterprise was wanted to handle another one

    Which got in the way of their archaeological expedition

    That doesn't say anything about what the E was doing between First Contact (which predated In Purgatory's Shadow) and Insurrection (which was after Dominon negotiations started, which clearly wasn't happening before the battle of Cardassia)
     
  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Insurrection took place during the Dominion War. Nemesis took place after.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's no timestamp on Insurrection. Since the only mentions of the war with the Dominion are in the past tense in that movie, and since the heroes are now in cahoots with people who during the war were in cahoots with the Dominion, it's rather natural to assume INS takes place after the war has ended and one can import clever Nazi scientists and forge new military alliances at one's leisure.

    Plenty of opportunities for the heroes to take the E-E to the war in the years preceding INS. And if they took her to where the war is, it also explains why we never saw her in DS9, because the war never was anywhere near DS9... That place was of profound strategic unimportance whenever the wormhole was closed for traffic, which was for the entire war.

    The fundamental thing here lies in what Cooleddie said: the Enterprise is always at the focus of the big crisis. Which is very different from saying that only the Enterprise ever gets to sort out big crises! For all we know, parallel to INS, there were four other adventures where the heroes of four other starships saved the universe in four different ways - after all, the only thing we can really glean from Trek is that the ship on camera gets to save the day, regardless of where the camera is pointed at and what it sez on the hull.

    With folks like Avengers, there's always the opportunity to split the ensemble and to save the world three times in parallel, from three completely separate supervillains who aren't in speaking terms, much less chasing a common goal.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  13. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Insurrection obviously takes place during the war simply by the fact that Worf is still assigned to Deep Space Nine.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why could he only be assigned there during the war? There's no rule against him being assigned there at other times.

    If we insist, we can let him play diplomat for two months or whatever. We know it won't work out in the end, not only because this is Worf we're talking about, but because Worf in his later appearances is never hinted at having had this diplomatic aspect to his career.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    He left Deep Space Nine as soon as the war was over. Prior to his reassignment from The Diplomatic Corps to the Enterprise in Nemesis, he only ever wore that uniform while assigned to Deep Space Nine.
     
  16. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Didn't Damar mentioned that the Sona joined the Dominion, or making ketracel-white for them? So that placed Insurrection during the war
     
  17. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of the tng cast says they were known to manufacture kw. They don't say anything about them being currently involved with the Dominion in Insurrection. And it wouldn't make any sense for the events of ins to even be possible if it was during the war and the Sona were a Dominion ally.

    ETA: Weyoun and Damar do confirm the Son'a are a Dom. ally in Penumbra, I see. And they also say the Son'a will fight the Federation in defense of the ketracel facility, so that obviously can't be the same time frame as Ins.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. The Son'a working for the former enemy is fine (and indeed the act is described in the past tense); the Son'a working for the current enemy makes no sense whatsoever.

    There is no hint in NEM or elsewhere that Worf would ever have been in the Diplomatic Corps, or otherwise engaged in diplomacy. It's a career option suggested in the DS9 finale, but as far as we can tell, nothing ever came out of it.

    Whatever the writers were thinking, they never said any things that would have placed the movie during the war, but they did say plenty of things that would put the movie after the war:

    - The heroes are not fighting, and don't want to fight: cowards, or postwar heroes?
    - Worf is not fighting: coward, or a postwar hero?
    - The Feds work together with people who once worked for their enemy.
    - The Dominion is mentioned specifically as a past enemy, from "within the past 24 months", along with other enemies who did not make an appearance or reappearance within that specific and rather odd time window; having the movie take place two years after the Dominion War started would make it postwar.
    - No hero, sidekick or villain mentions an ongoing war, even though all would be motivated to, in this dance around the healing Fountain of Youth, where promises and insults fly, and other wars get a mention!

    If somebody in the writing team wanted to make a wartime adventure, he or she got steamrollered in terms of the end result. Which is no wonder, since obviously the movie needed to stand as much on its own as possible, without close connections to specific other pieces of Trek the audiences might never have heard about.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Holy crap, I thought this was the WandaVision discussion thread not the Let's Beat a Very Dead Horse in the Wrong Thread in the Wrong Forum thread.
     
  20. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thread drift happens. If someone wanted to bring up a new topic of conversation about WV, this stuff would probably fade to the background. :shrug: