Spoilers WandaVision discussion thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    From a story-telling context, if all focus were on Wanda, I suppose it could make sense to keep DS out of it. However, considering the amount of raw power being used on a continuous basis, and considering the source of that raw power being the Scarlet Witch (a big deal, based on dialogue), it would be more logical to have DS show up to basically say, what the living hell is going on here?!? In fact, that amount of raw power should theoretically attract damn near every single capable magic user on the planet, possibly in nearby systems. Keeping it micro and unnoticed contradicted the amount of power that was being used. They honestly kind of painted themselves into a corner with that one.
     
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  2. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I recognize the "Avengers Problem" you get whenever you introduce the prospect of a superhero team-up, but I think that it was more important to counter the perception that every MCU story exists solely to build hype for the next MCU story, and considering WandaVision was already so heavily regarded as leading into the next Dr. Strange film, it made more sense to not have him show up and suck the air out of the story.
     
  3. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd feel better about zero Sanctum sorcerers appearing if the finale, and particularly Agatha's role in it, hadn't been so meh. If the conclusion had been gripping and moving, swell. But to build Agatha up as a key driver behind the events, only to cap things off with a shrug of a generic magic-balls fight, followed by a shrug of an exit, was not that. Merely plugging in any other character in the finale probably wouldn't have solved these issues, but it might well have been more fun than what we got.

    Also, if they didn't want to bring in Doctor Strange from the start, there was no need to have had the Hex attract all that military attention on the first place. It could just as easily have been an isolated, unnoticed phenomenon. Ergo, we kinda got the worst combination of both tracks: tangential, unnecessary world-building (Monica), while also undermining previous world-building (even if Strange himself was busy elsewhere, where the heck were the other sorcerers, whose stated purpose is to police magic worldwide?). In this context, saying "We didn't want to distract from Wanda's story" feels at least a little disingenuous.
     
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  4. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    That would be cheesey fanservice. It would introduce a major character to the series that would draw a great deal of dramatic focus away from Wanda -- because you can't have a movie lead show up in a spin-off and not draw dramatic focus away from the spin-off lead -- and it would have absolutely nothing to do with the emotional and thematic stakes of the series (how we cope with grief). It would be a narrative dead-end and would feel completely unfulfilling, and it would undermine the emotional and thematic weight of the show.

    Bad decision creatively. I don't care about Dr. Strange's magic mumbo-jumbo.

    Absolutely do not care about magic mumbo-jumbo. That is a plot device used to literalize the way grief can drive us to create prisons for ourselves and those around us, and taking that plot device as a reason to bring in a bunch of characters unrelated to the emotional conflict driving the series who have no emotional stakes in that conflict, would be an example of bad writing.

    100%.
     
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  5. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    And yet, “magic jumbo-jumbo” are pretty much what Strange and Wanda are all about.
     
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  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    No, they are not. WandaVision, as I have said before, is about grief, and how grief can drive us to create prisons for ourselves and the people around us; magic is just a plot device that literalizes this. Doctor Strange is about hubris and redemption; magic is just the plot device used to facilitate his emotional arc.

    Magic in both is a plot device, not the actual story.
     
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  7. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a plot device in the penultimate episode, which uses magic as an opportunity to revisit and analyze Wanda's history.

    In the finale, it's the actual story, which hinges on magic runes, magically unlocking memories, and magic depriving Wanda of her Westview idyll, not because she chooses to move on from the artificial and face the real world for its own sake, but because the circumstances of her magical situation won't allow her to remain there without consciously torturing hundreds of innocents. And then an alien shows up. And then Wanda's kids are still out there, because, screw it, magic.

    So, yeah, it wasn't such a thematically focused episode that another sorcerer appearing would have destroyed the purity of the drama. Nor would I be at all surprised if covid prevented Cumberbatch's appearance, and they decided to go with this party line of focusing on Wanda's grief as a cover.
     
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  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can see it both ways.
    From an in universe perspective, it does seem weird that such a massive magical event wouldn't have drawn either Strange's attention.
    But from a purely real world storytelling perspective, it makes sense to just focus on the characters who had been in the show from the beginning, and not distract from them by bringing one of the big name movie leads.
     
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  9. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Strange's appearance would only have been interesting if Wanda sidelined him as soon as he showed up. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out he had been monitoring what was going on during the episode, but for "reasons" decided not to interfere.
     
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  10. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Agatha clearly knew about the Sorcerer Supreme and has apparently evaded both the Ancient One and Strange for the last few centuries, so perhaps she arranged a distraction to make sure she wasn't interrupted?
     
  11. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ... aaand, now's the time when we remember there are multiple Sanctums around the world, staffed by dozens, if not hundreds, of sorcerers. And one witch distracted them all?!
     
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  12. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Considering how much of a big deal Wanda was already causing the outside world and how typically-Marvel the final episode was I don't see any good reason to not include a Strange cameo at least, but also don't see any reason it would make sense with the rest of the series' themes.

    If the real world stuff was gonna be there and be such a big event, it doesn't make a lot of sense not to at least name drop/cameo Strange or other sorcerers.
     
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  13. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    It would have fun need to see Strange get caught up in the hex and get transformed along with the rest of the people. It would have shown that that Wanda was more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme rather than just saying it.
     
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  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I think bringing in a major actor like Benedict Cumberbatch to reprise a movie-starring role, only to immediately side-line him, would have been dramatically unsatisfying. Better to just leave him out.

    I don't think we need an explanation for his absence in WandaVision any more than we needed an explanation for the rest of the Avengers' absence in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. If we must have an explanation, just say he was fighting a threat to the entire planet at the time or that he didn't intervene because he knew the Westview Anomaly would not threaten anyone outside the immediate vicinity or some such.
     
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  15. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm curious if they're going to specifically address the events of WandaVision at all in The Mutliverse of Madness. I know they aren't going to want to set the movie up in way that requires people to see the show, but it would be nice to get at least a line or two addressing whether or not Strange is aware of what happened in Westview.
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I would like that. A little easter egg for those who care and it wouldn't get in the way of the story. The line practically writes itself -- something nice and generic you could insert into almost any scenario in the film:

    "Ah, Wanda Maximoff. You know, I had my suspicions about you back when we were fighting Thanos. When I saw your little anomaly and realized Harkness was moving against you, I decided to wait and see. You didn't disappoint! 'The Scarlet Witch.' Welcome to the big kids table."
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If the movie is done right, and there's 10 million new subscribers to Disney Plus the day after Doctor Strange 2 drops... They are getting a third and fourth movie, even if the box office is shit.

    I saw something recently... A local actor who is in Land of the Dead, was on a Kiwi game show where comedians tell jokes rather than answer current affair questions well... "Sure you're in the highest grossing movie in the world right now son, but tell me exactly how many movie theaters are open at the mo? 3?"
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think I just saw Billy and Tommy in Hell on M.O.D.A.K..
     
  19. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except that one's easily explained: Cap and Co. were on the run, and had no way of contacting them without being discovered. So, again: where were Earth's hundreds of sorcerers?

    Well, she'll presumably still be looking for her children...
     
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  20. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, it's easy to come up with an extra-textual explanation for any of these supposed issues. That didn't stop people from whining about Cap and Nat not contacting the other Avengers in TWS.

    "We sensed that you might be the Scarlet Witch. Only Harkness was foolish enough to move against you, and now she's paying the price."

    Extra-textual explanations are easy.
     
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