I assure you ma'am, that my head is slamming on the other side of that same wall for polar reasons effecting just as much pain and trauma.
Voyager Wh@re!
- Thread starter Udat
- Start date
The ideal scenario would've been kill Tuvix, kill Neelix, keep Tuvok.
I assure you ma'am, that my head is slamming on the other side of that same wall for polar reasons effecting just as much pain and trauma.
That was me wondering how many times we can shoot this dead horse in any given two month span.
So, yes, I believe you.
On the other hand, that does make the episode "Tuvix" one of the best Trek episodes out there. We're still debating/fighting/discussing it after all this time due to the moral implications therein.
That's what makes Trek so great.
QFTNo, I didn't think it was a bad show to start with. I like all Star Trek, at least to some degree.
It must be an Internet thing to whine about VOY all the time. I know several folks IRL who watched at least the whole run, and either liked it or didn't mind it. My hubby likes it as much as TNG. I'm always happy when any Trek is on TV (SyFy had a Next Gen marathon a couple days ago, whee!) although VOY is my pet favorite.
If I want to whine about VOY eps I don't like, I don't do it secretly.
The whiners only seem to be online! Most people remember TNG and Voyager.
I assure you ma'am, that my head is slamming on the other side of that same wall for polar reasons effecting just as much pain and trauma.
That was me wondering how many times we can shoot this dead horse in any given two month span.
So, yes, I believe you.
On the other hand, that does make the episode "Tuvix" one of the best Trek episodes out there. We're still debating/fighting/discussing it after all this time due to the moral implications therein.
That's what makes Trek so great.
Admiral, please believe me when I say that an episode that causes much debate or argument is NOT always something good in itself. Often not, for that matter.
Ordinarily, I would agree, but I do consider Tuvix a Star Trek episode.
Best. Poll. Ever.
Why thank you!
Voyager has more flaws than the Sears Tower.
LOL and GOL (groaning out loud).
Jack Nicholson as captain rather than Kate Mulgrew would have solved a lot of problems.
I agree.I assure you ma'am, that my head is slamming on the other side of that same wall for polar reasons effecting just as much pain and trauma.
That was me wondering how many times we can shoot this dead horse in any given two month span.
So, yes, I believe you.
On the other hand, that does make the episode "Tuvix" one of the best Trek episodes out there. We're still debating/fighting/discussing it after all this time due to the moral implications therein.
That's what makes Trek so great.
"Tuvix" is one of those eps. that can be used as great teaching tool to spark passionate debate in any college ethics classes. I remember how many schools had used TNG eps. as a source of education and to provoke debate. I think this is one of the Voyager eps. that also falls into that category.
I agree.
That was me wondering how many times we can shoot this dead horse in any given two month span.
So, yes, I believe you.
On the other hand, that does make the episode "Tuvix" one of the best Trek episodes out there. We're still debating/fighting/discussing it after all this time due to the moral implications therein.
That's what makes Trek so great.
"Tuvix" is one of those eps. that can be used as great teaching tool to spark passionate debate in any college ethics classes. I remember how many schools had used TNG eps. as a source of education and to provoke debate. I think this is one of the Voyager eps. that also falls into that category.
Yes, the episode teaches us that Janeway was immoral, narcissistic, pompous, and self-absorbed. As teens, the kids could identify.
If that were the only point of view, then there wouldn't be a debate and which is the whole point of showing it to the class in the first place.I agree.That was me wondering how many times we can shoot this dead horse in any given two month span.
So, yes, I believe you.
On the other hand, that does make the episode "Tuvix" one of the best Trek episodes out there. We're still debating/fighting/discussing it after all this time due to the moral implications therein.
That's what makes Trek so great.
"Tuvix" is one of those eps. that can be used as great teaching tool to spark passionate debate in any college ethics classes. I remember how many schools had used TNG eps. as a source of education and to provoke debate. I think this is one of the Voyager eps. that also falls into that category.
Yes, the episode teaches us that Janeway was immoral, narcissistic, pompous, and self-absorbed. As teens, the kids could identify.
okay here's perhaps even a new point, the doctor refused to murder Tuvix so Janeway murdered Tuvix herself (Even though as CMO he outranked her in this decison.). What if Janeway didn't want to murder (couldn't murder?)Tuvix herself but instead tried to order other people to do it... Who would have murdered Tuvix and who would have told her to shove it? Janeway had the moral weight inthis episode to follow her convictions and deal with the consequences of her decisions that murdering this badly dressed man was the right thing to do and if the CMO wasn't going to do it then she had to... But she could have just as easily ordered B'Elanna to remove the Doctor's Ethical subroutines or handed the over the duty to Kes who seemed to be the most vocal instigator towards Tuvix's execution when Janeway was stilll fencesitting.
Was Janeway the only one onboard with the force of will to be horrible just because it was the right thing to do, because I'm semipositive no one else aboard would have murdered Tuvix or brainwashed the Doctor into doing it for them?
Yes even Kes.
If rescuing her lover by putting this stalker down was so vital, why did she wait for Janeway to make a decision for her? Kes has the expertiese to have proformed the proceedure at any point, any where on the ship, sneaking up behind Tuvix and blindsiding him to bring back her hedgehog because Tuvix was as good as constantly smothering them to death with every moment of his existence.
Kes didn't have the stones to kill for love (Yet?) even if she was pissy enough to bully Janeway (with tears and guilt) into doing the deed for her.
Surely if Janeway makes a decision and every member of the crew disagrees with her, that that is a cause to consider mutiny?
Was Janeway the only one onboard with the force of will to be horrible just because it was the right thing to do, because I'm semipositive no one else aboard would have murdered Tuvix or brainwashed the Doctor into doing it for them?
Yes even Kes.
If rescuing her lover by putting this stalker down was so vital, why did she wait for Janeway to make a decision for her? Kes has the expertiese to have proformed the proceedure at any point, any where on the ship, sneaking up behind Tuvix and blindsiding him to bring back her hedgehog because Tuvix was as good as constantly smothering them to death with every moment of his existence.
Kes didn't have the stones to kill for love (Yet?) even if she was pissy enough to bully Janeway (with tears and guilt) into doing the deed for her.
Surely if Janeway makes a decision and every member of the crew disagrees with her, that that is a cause to consider mutiny?
A debate over when it is proper to kill an innocent?
I think Genghis Kahn might audit that class. Mahatma Gandhi would give it a pass, though.
Calling the life of an innocent a "mistake" of course makes it all right to take that life. Errrrr.
Naomi was a mistake too.
The real one died and she was replaced by a duplicate from a spacial scission. That's possibly why it's conceivable to argue that Sam abandoned her which is why we never saw Sam in the later episodes.
There must have been nights when she was a baby screaming her head off that the crew in the adjacent quarters must have considered that if she wasn't a real person, there wouldn't be any consequences to smothering the tyke so that they could guarantee themselves a good nights sleep and not fret about the zero consequences of merely correcting a mistake.
Did Naomi (and Harry) have the full rights the same as any other federation Citizen(The Maquis renounced their citizenship, was it given back or forced back on them?)?
Tuvix should have taken a citizenship qualification like an immigrant considerign joining up, to confirm his rights before Janeway took them away.
The real one died and she was replaced by a duplicate from a spacial scission. That's possibly why it's conceivable to argue that Sam abandoned her which is why we never saw Sam in the later episodes.
There must have been nights when she was a baby screaming her head off that the crew in the adjacent quarters must have considered that if she wasn't a real person, there wouldn't be any consequences to smothering the tyke so that they could guarantee themselves a good nights sleep and not fret about the zero consequences of merely correcting a mistake.
Did Naomi (and Harry) have the full rights the same as any other federation Citizen(The Maquis renounced their citizenship, was it given back or forced back on them?)?
Tuvix should have taken a citizenship qualification like an immigrant considerign joining up, to confirm his rights before Janeway took them away.
Yep, and if she had let Tuvok and Neelix die some folks would be complaining about how she didn't care enough about her crew and how she murdered them blah, blah, blah.
There are just some situations where you're not set up to win and that was such a situation for Janeway. Was if fair? Heck no but then life isn't fair. As Adama would say sometimes you just need to roll the hard six - or is it eight?
