Voyager: The Ending You Would Have Preferred
- Thread starter Tachyon
- Start date
Sending her to the brig would have been fine. Induced coma or stasis for long term storage.
Once upon a time I wrote a large piece of fanfiction I have since lost, about Joe Carey's wife (Girlfriend on Voyager? I forget) in a time war with Admiral Janeway, since supposedly saving Carey would have precluded Seven and Chuckles hooking up which is why the Admiral chose to let him die in the first place.
Once upon a time I wrote a large piece of fanfiction I have since lost, about Joe Carey's wife (Girlfriend on Voyager? I forget) in a time war with Admiral Janeway, since supposedly saving Carey would have precluded Seven and Chuckles hooking up which is why the Admiral chose to let him die in the first place.
Which would have been murder, and something else for us all to carry on about.
I'd prefer not making it to the AQ. Ship destroyed and the entire crew killed. That would make for a great ending. Possibly by having Kurros coming back and aiding the Borg if they can't get the job done themselves. Or just having the Borg do it. But either of those would have been the most compelling ending IMO.
Janeway had no problem murdering Tuvix in an almost identical way, so murdering the other Janeway that way would be 'old hat' to her by that point.
Which would have been murder, and something else for us all to carry on about.
Janeway had no problem murdering Tuvix in an almost identical way, so murdering the other Janeway that way would be 'old hat' to her by that point.
I have to ask - why?
Janeway didn't seem to object to the two Seven of Nines from the episode Relativity being merged into a blended composite, and she's bloody lucky she didn't end up being integrated herself since her present only existed because of much back peddaling every time Braxton blew up Vopyager all the many times he blew up Voyager during that adventure.
The change in actors for Braxton was explained away by the 27 year schism in appearance between the new young Captain Braxton and the insane grandpa who had been trapped in bedlam after bedlam for the previous three decades of his life only to be returend to a future that wasn't quite his and squeesed inside of another Braxton that considering the difference in their ships tech deviated from him still centuries earlier than when they met Voyager sinice ont of them thought voyager was doomed and the other Knew that Voyager had a destiny.
So the Time cops wanted Admiral Janeway to fufill her destiny and approved of her abuse of time travel since it was their recorded history? But if they didn't/hadn't then what they woud have done is intergrated Admiral janeway and Captian janeway into a composite being who would have had sanity issues, MORE sanity issues and had an "odd" change of appearance to cop with jig sawing together their unmatching bits and pieces?
Makes me wonder if they could have used the Nicole Janeway footage after all?
Also how long could the two Sevens converse before they were completely intergrated? Seconds or days?
But killing Admmiral Janeway would have been self defense. That girl was murdering the universe. the universe might feel compelled to strike bac, no? It's funny, Admiral Janeway talks about the 23 people that died in the next 16 years trekking home, but she doesn't mention how many children were born? How many babies on board Voyager were UNMADE and cast into an limbo oblivioun of bad ideas to never be repeated... Probably none right?
Look at it this way: If the Admiral was not supposed to alter history the universe would have found a way to stop her. The universe always does. So clearly her time tampering was approved by somebody "higher up."
maybe it's because I babble and babble, but...
Although, potential futures do fight prolonged wars to guarantee the insolvency of their history, so it's more than possible that factions were fighting with some force over whether Admiral Janeway was going to get away with her armchair quarterbacking. And just because we have met federatin Citizens like Braxton, Ducane and Daniels (Who i suspect was evil and duping Archer into allying himself with his most indefferent blood enemy) we can't opssible say which 29th (the home of Enterprises Future Guy) and 31st century held the high ground when "this" 24th century was transpiring, or that it wasn't wound back a few minutes after the credits rolled.
Although, potential futures do fight prolonged wars to guarantee the insolvency of their history, so it's more than possible that factions were fighting with some force over whether Admiral Janeway was going to get away with her armchair quarterbacking. And just because we have met federatin Citizens like Braxton, Ducane and Daniels (Who i suspect was evil and duping Archer into allying himself with his most indefferent blood enemy) we can't opssible say which 29th (the home of Enterprises Future Guy) and 31st century held the high ground when "this" 24th century was transpiring, or that it wasn't wound back a few minutes after the credits rolled.
Man... you guys are the gift that keeps on giving. Wrong is wrong is wrong. Especially when you know better, which Admiral Janeway did. So if you take money out of the cash register at work and don't get caught, it was tacit approval? I gotta make sure we don't let you keep an eye on the store!!!
I think in the end what has rubbed me the wrong way is the fact that the Janeway sympathizers will make up any excuse to make their heroine look good. Both Admiral Janeway and Captain Janeway were wrong in Endgame. Plain and simple they violated numerous regulations and wiped out twenty-six years of history (Alpha, Beta and Delta Quadrant) and no telling how many lives to save two people.
What happened to Janeway's speech in Caretaker about how they were now involved and couldn't just up and ditch the people in the Delta Quadrant. Whoa!!! Her lesbian crush gets it and Janeway wants to up and re-write everything.
Gimme a break.
Kit-Kat ok?
Kind of.
Nope not any more, your attitude is a prime example of why Janeway fans talk about the negative attitude on the BBS. I've heard your argument before, it doesn't hold water because I could just as easily say that she was allowed to change the time line because her line was so broken that the “time police” didn’t exist at all and be just as right.
Maybe by changing the time line she actually saved thousands of lives because she saved Tuvok and Chakotay, you don’t know because that wasn’t addressed. Accusing me of twisting the outcome to my liking is like the pot calling the kettle black, because you are doing considerable twisting in the other direction.
There is more than one example in Trek, of the Temporal Integrity Commission investigating possible problems when the time line is endangered and they were not investigating anything in “Endgame”. That’s canon and you can’t argue with that.
All this simply says that in “Trek” the Captains are assumed to be capable, moral, intelligent people that have earned their rank, and that each one is given a lot of leeway.
You may not like the character, but there is no reason to bash her. When she returned to the Alpha Quadrant she was promoted (again canon), so she had Starfleet’s approval of her actions in the Delta Quadrant. It may not have been what you wanted to see, but it is canon.
My question is why do you hate her so much you would pick apart each episode to find fault? I don’t really want your answer I do want you to see what fans of Janeway see when you start downing her, because the only real difference between Janeway and Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Archer is the obvious one, she’s female.
I like Kathryn Janeway, I think she was a brave wonderful character; I don’t like the bashing of her character that so often happens in these kinds of threads. You don’t have to like the character, but you need to respect the fact that while you don’t like her, others do.
There is another thread in this forum called “The Great J/C Thread” and one of the first posts asked that we not “bash” Seven of Nine. No J/C fan in that thread had even thought about “bashing” but we were asked not to as if you are all used to belittling comments and outright personality assassination of Trek Characters on this board.
I like Kathryn Janeway, so I think that I can ask that you respect that and refrain from “bashing” her.
"Give me a break" can work both ways, you started the discussion.
Brit
Belittling Voyager seem to be the main passtime activity for some around here. The claims that the writing for Voyager (and Enterprise) were significantly worse compared to other series is simply hilarious.
Every Trek series had their ups and downs. In every series writers had their brain farts. Which series is the best is ultimately a matter of opinion nothing more. But this is something which seems to be difficult to accept by certain individuals around here. I guess spending time bashing one Trek series on a discussion board does make someone feel better about themselves.
I love Voyager and for me it is the best Trek series so far. Was it perfect? No. Did I like the ending? No. But it is still the best Trek series for me.
Every Trek series had their ups and downs. In every series writers had their brain farts. Which series is the best is ultimately a matter of opinion nothing more. But this is something which seems to be difficult to accept by certain individuals around here. I guess spending time bashing one Trek series on a discussion board does make someone feel better about themselves.
I love Voyager and for me it is the best Trek series so far. Was it perfect? No. Did I like the ending? No. But it is still the best Trek series for me.
I would have preferred that, too. Perhaps them being a little bit closer to Alpha Quadrant than they used to, but definitely still in the Delta Quadrant That was the idea of Voyager in the first place.
However, according to this little poll, many seem to prefer the idea of them getting back sooner than in the series finale.
I voted for them getting back a little before the finale, although I would have, as stated previously, settled for a non-time travel 'Endgame' that basically shows us that they did get back, and, in a retrospective way, what happened and what they did afterward.
My second choice is for them to still be 'out there, thataway' at the end, Tacyhon.
My second choice is for them to still be 'out there, thataway' at the end, Tacyhon.
My premise isn't anti-trek in the least, and it's not a climax at all but rather a transformation of the series into something else while maintaining the Voyageresque isolationist exlplorative theme. The Maquis would've been tried, and the crew and captain investigated as a standard practice, just like when Picard lost the Stargazer he was automatically courtmartialled and investigated but ultimately not charged. In my instance, Janeway was automatically investigated per standard starfleet protocall, but ultimately not charged. Everyone else gets a relatively easy sentance and most are even allowed to stay on Voyager and in Starfleet.
My attempt was to make it more realistic, more hard, because towards the end Star Trek became too PC, too easy, with a convenient way out. I wanted to see what would happen to the crew after they got home, the consequences, and perhaps their new missions afterward. I wanted a more complete and diverse set of plots, story arcs, and characters, which is why I think Voyager exploring deep deep space and using Choktay's base is a good idea, because it explores two crews: Voyager's and Chakotay's. Sorta like combining the stories of DS9 and Voyager, but with a more realistic, gritty, TMP movie era/DS9 feel to it, with a dash of Voyager. The two crews could act in tandem with story arcs and plots, or independently, greatly adding to the longevity to the show.
I don't think it's anti startrek to explore the legalities behind being in starfleet, i don't think it's anti startrek to expect conseqenses however large or small they are to actions, and I certainly don't think it's anti star trek to want to explore new ways to tell stories, morality plays, and arcs. If you ask me, Star Trek grew stale and could've used a bit of radical story telling.
And as far as Chakotay goes, I can't remember any specific story saying he didn't have citizenship. As far as I know, if you're human you have automatic citizenship to the Federation, much like if you're born in America, you have automatic American citizenship. I know it's a difference between countries(America) and species (Human), but in Star Trek Earth didn't have individual countries with their own political agenda, it was one united earth (like America and it's states, with the president in charge). So Chakotay being human would grant him citizenship. Also, he's been to earth, and it HAS been established that his grandfather's tribe originated somewhere in south america, or at the very LEAST from a native american or south american tribe somewhere on Earth, so that right there refutes the argument that Chakotay wouldn't be a citizen.
And, playing devil's advocate, I think Starfleet could make a reasonable argument that the act of resigning a Starfleet comission with the intent of fighting organizations that are in "agreeement" (the dimilitarized zone agreement between Cardassia and the Federation) over territory would constitute ana act of treason against the Federation and Starfleet, and the subsequent acts of attacking or raiding Starfleet ships and installations only further that argument as well. If it's the intention of the Federation and Starfleet to maintain a stable and peaceful co-existence between Cardassia and the Federation, then the act Chakotay comitted is a direct violation of that intention, and thus a violation against the Federation and it's military.
