Voyager Deep Space Nine Crossover

[Lynx]

I thought it was a decent way to express the DS9 producers went too far in making their epic war tale as equivalent to the Borg Invasion which spawned the legendary Wolf 359 on TNG. Voyager treated the DS9 dilemma, with the Dominion, how it should have been which was "A Bottled Conflict" within the realm of its own series. Still today I feel the Dominion stories were overrated and the conclusions for each arch were unsatisfying in particular "Sacrifice of Angels" where Sisko throws the get of jail free card and wish the Dominion away, and "What you leave Behind" where Odo simply mind robs Head Dominion Lady to stop hating solids and ending the war. Keeping this war crap for a season or two would avoid too much bleeding through plots into a movie from TNG or the sister series like Voyager.

TNG is the grand daddy of that world of Star Trek and his spinoff series should follow suit, trickling down whatever remnants remain. DS9 never had such a following where a prolong war drama would or could influence the rest. The other productions just didn't care about what DS9 was doing and would not give it weight - the Dominion - which never deserved such grandeur.

I have to disagree here.

I think that The Dominion were great as enemies, much more convincing than the Borg. The Female Changeling was the worst enemy in the whole Star Trek (with "worst" I don't mean bad but dangerous) and her genocidial tendencies really made me hate her. One of the dissapointments for me was that she wasn't killed off so she did make an impression on me, something the Borg Queen never did, neither in TNG, nor in Voyager.

OK, the war did drag on for a long time in the series which cvontributed a lot to the "dark" rumor which DS9 has. But DS9 never became dystopic in the same way as "Destiny" and "Picard" are. There were lighter episodes here and there which did raise the spirit for us viewers.

I also have to disagree with the comment that the spin-offs should be like TNG. Basically maybe but not totally because in that case the spinoffs would only become bleak copies of the original series.

Here we can compare Star trek with NCIS. The original series is the flagship, NCIS LA is somewhat different, just like DS9 was to TNG and NCIS New Orleans is more like the original, a little bit like Voyager was to TNG.

Unfortunately there is another similarity which is not so fun. NCIS New Orleans started good but a series of changes among the cast has ruined the series for me, just like Voyager was ruined by a similar event. So I've stopped watching NCIS New Orleans. Sometimes history repeats itself.

 

[STEPhon IT]

You don't see NCIS LA have grand plots which spill over to NCIS or NO. On occasion a story comes up where teams can come together but there's never an overreach where the plots have to spill over like what DS9 tried to do. And I'm glad the other productions didn't fall for it, Voyager and the Movies kept DS9's war stories where they belonged... on DS9 only.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

A few things to consider. The Dominion War spanned the final 2 seasons of DS9. This ran parallel with VOY Seasons 4&5 and Insurrection. Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant, and the producers wanted the 3rd TNG movie to be..... a TNG movie.

VOY Seasons 6&7 and Nemesis take place after the war ended.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I was glad to see the movies and Voyager stayed in their own lane and not get into that drivel that DS9 had. Keeping those particular stories in house are better when they're contained than spread out where it draws attention where it's not needed. DS9 went too far making their tale a galactic threat because it made their world a lot closer to what we know when originally they were supposed to be at the edge of the frontier where we would see less of the aliens we knew from TNG and TOS. DS9 felt compelled to continue to creep in the Klingons and the Romulans and Breens when they're suppose to be Quadrants away. Voyager stayed true to what they were doing and didn't bend their world building to make their aliens closer to the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I was glad to see the movies and Voyager stayed in their own lane and not get into that drivel that DS9 had.

Like I said, Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant, and Berman wanted Insurrection to pursue a TNG-style story instead of chasing another show's storyline. Neither was ever in danger of becoming extension of DS9.

 

[at Quark's]

I think Voyager handled the Dominion war credibly. The crew hears the news, and we see some reactions on some of it (e.g. Torres reacting in anger when she hear the Maquis exist no more), but ultimately, it's happening on the other side of the galaxy and they don't have to do anything with it. Well, perhaps except for wondering whether the Federation will still be there when they return, but they can't do anything, anyway.

Insurrection on the other hand has no such excuse. The Federation is in the middle of the largest war it's ever seen, fighting just to survive, and they're sending a Sovereign class starship (probably one of the more militarily capable vessels they have) on first contact missions with species that are barely warp capable, and an extremely capable android on an undercover mission of a supposedly primitive world?

 

[Tosk]

Which is why I personally place Insurrection at the very tail end of DS9's finale, between the end of the war and the signing of the treaty which presumably came many weeks later even though we cut directly to it in the episode. That covers "The diplomatic corps is busy with Dominion negotiations" and also that the Son'a were known to have produced (past tense) ketracel white. As late as "Penumbra", the Son'a are still active in the war, so it has to be set after that. It also leaves plenty of time for Worf to be at the Manzar colony for some reason, before helping out at the Briar Patch, then coming back to DS9.

Thankfully they cut out Quark's cameo, so we don't have to try and figure that mess out.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Any thoughts on how Garak would blend in within the confines of the Voyager culture?

 

[at Quark's]

Well, he might have a small problem, given that he's a Cardassian on a 1/3rd Maquis ship that still has memories of Seska. I could see him make an interesting pair with Tuvok, who takes him under his personal protection.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I think B' Elanna would dislike him from the beginning and would learn to adjust to his unique sense of participation in matters of the securing the ship.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I was thinking of two diabolical minds on both series, Suder and Garak. Lon Suder was a member of the Maquis who was stranded along with Voyager and became part of the engineer personnel. Suder, a Betazoid, couldn't suppress his violent tendencies in his mind and murdered a crewmember. Garak as we know was a secret agent for the Cardassian Union and has presented himself an enigma throughout DS9's run, what it would've been like to have these two minds together for a episode of either series or better yet a crossover?

 

[publiusr]

One would have killed the other...

 

[STEPhon IT]

Hmm, I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking something a little more interesting... was that all Suder could do? I was thinking a meeting of the minds could be interesting. I mean a dialogue between them could be interesting if written well. Andrew Robinson and Brad Dourif are fantastic actors and could chew up some scenery together than just boringly killing each others characters.