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VOY: Unworthy by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Grade "Unworthy"


  • Total voters
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Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

So...

Now that Torres has an official, high-ranked position in the fleet, is everyone still going to be required to lie about her identity in reports?
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^ I think that depends entirely on what her backstory turns out to be, actually. There are only but so many story setups, but where the story goes matters enormously. (Look at all the similarities between Vaughn and Sisko, for instance, but it would be hard to call Vaughn a Sisko retread.)
While I don't mind Eden's backstory, it is worth pointing out that as far as I know Vaughn's similarity to Sisko was intentional.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^ I think that depends entirely on what her backstory turns out to be, actually. There are only but so many story setups, but where the story goes matters enormously. (Look at all the similarities between Vaughn and Sisko, for instance, but it would be hard to call Vaughn a Sisko retread.)
If Vaughn had been born because of the Prophets, then he would be a Sisko retread. Otherwise no. But if Eden is looking her people and finds them in the DQ and they turn out to be a xenophobic race who control/conquer/destroy then I call her an Odo retread.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I thought this book was fantastic. Although without Tuvok in it, it seems to be lacking something. I guess it is the mesh of all the charcters together again that did it. I liked how Neelix was involved in the story too but i felt he needed more attention. The 6th book out since Voyager returned and he had maybe a few chapters worth of story. Perhaps in later books we will see more of him. I was glad to see Tom and Harry at the end at least trying to get along by playing Captain Proton again; it was hopeful about the future of their friendship. I do have to agree with Elias Vaughns point made above...since Torres is now the Fleet engineer and would be mentioned (at least in my opinion) frequently in reports back to starfleet command; would that mean they aren't as worried about keeping a low profile? I dunno, only time will tell i guess.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

They said they'd be mentioning her plenty, just using an alias, so it'll show up as Fleet Engineer "fake name" instead of Torres...
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

That would make sense! I loved how by the end Chakotay was back in command and everyone that WAS on voyagers senior staff is back on the ship somehow!
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^ I think that depends entirely on what her backstory turns out to be, actually. There are only but so many story setups, but where the story goes matters enormously. (Look at all the similarities between Vaughn and Sisko, for instance, but it would be hard to call Vaughn a Sisko retread.)
If Vaughn had been born because of the Prophets, then he would be a Sisko retread. Otherwise no. But if Eden is looking her people and finds them in the DQ and they turn out to be a xenophobic race who control/conquer/destroy then I call her an Odo retread.

This seems a silly argument to me - the circumstances of a character's birth are the only things you look at to determine if they are repeating themselves?

As far as I know, Chakotay, Paris, and Kim were all born to two human parents under normal circumstances. Does that make them all "retreads" of the same basic character premise?

I mean, sure, if Eden's people are another Dominion, that would be a little annoying. But that's one of 10,000 ways they could go with her story.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

As I said before,the idea that both senior officers in the D Q fleet should have secret origins in the delta quadrant seems like lazy storytelling to me.
There seems to be a concerted effort lately to make Starfleet look like the most inept organization in human history and it's beginning to get annoying.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

As I said before,the idea that both senior officers in the D Q fleet should have secret origins in the delta quadrant seems like lazy storytelling to me.
There seems to be a concerted effort lately to make Starfleet look like the most inept organization in human history and it's beginning to get annoying.
It's not concerted, the writers are better than that, but I think that the editorial musical chairs is taking its toll on the stories the writers are telling. It remains to be seen how Eden's character plays out, which will take a few years.

Thrawn, you're taking my argument and simplifying it even further, and you know exactly what I was saying. I was just stating if this is the way they choose to go it would be wholly unsatisfying. I would much rather they choose something far less mystical and have an ancient civilisation be involved somehow.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I also loved Torres’s characterization and interaction with Conlon, and found her promotion to be a great idea. Kim being all freaked out and spazzing works for me too, and as a previous commenter mentioned, I wondered if it wasn’t perhaps motivated by a general sense of abandonment and not just Paris’s lack of trust.
I think part of Harry's reaction comes from his background: his biological family was very supportive and harmonious, and always there for each other. Tom and B'Elanna both grew up with much more friction and conflict in their families.

To Harry, if you consider people family you ought to be able to trust them with anything. T&B knew that "ought" doesn't always work out that way, and they were guarding agaist even unintentional leaks. And therein lies the rub, or part of it anyway.

I do think Harry had a right to be angry, and I didn't like the way everyone came down on him for it. Geez! Let the guy be angry for a while! He'll get over it when he's ready to get over it.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

If I hadn't read Full Circle and Unworthy and just learned that they lead up to most of the old gang being back on Voyager and back in the Delta Quadrant, I'd probably have been cynical and dismissive about the whole idea.

But I've read the books. Looked at strictly from a plot perspective, a fair number of events in Unworthy were pretty predictable. But there's more than just plot. There's a lot of character stuff over the course of the two books that makes the plot work. What seems contrived based on a cursory glance becomes considerably more convincing considering what the characters go through.

There may be readers who find that Beyer relies on emotion as much as Golden did, but I don't. Beyer's characters experience emotions and react and change in response to them; Golden's were constantly overwhelmed by emotions that meant nothing.

So, I liked Unworthy. Not perfect, not as blow-you-away as Full Circle (but how many times can you tell that kind of story and have it retain any impact?), but still a dramatic improvement over the first few relaunch books.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Just finished the book this morning; it kept me company during sleepless parts of the night. Though I expect I might have gotten a *little* more sleep last night if I hadn't had the book to engage my brain! I found it to be quite a page-turner, especially in the last 1/3 when when the mysteries about the Indign and the saboteur built up.

I enjoyed the book, though I found it a tad uneven in ways I chalk up to the editorial upheavals. (A very minor quibble: Harry's internal monologue referring to himself as a "cool uncle" kind of took me out of the story, because I couldn't remember ever hearing a Trek character using that bit of very contemporary slang.)

I really liked Seven's arc in the book, especially the revelation (to us and herself) that she rejected assimilation by the Caeliar. I think Kirsten's done a great job exploring the complexities of Seven's personhood as part-Borg, part-Human, part-Caeliar.

Like many commenters so far, I wasn't that keen on seeing Chakotay back in the captain's chair so quickly, but I'm not sure what other narrative path could've been feasible for him.

I'm glad that Tom and B'Elanna have been met with *some* backlash to their decision to lie to everybody, even if it's just Harry, basically. Frankly, I was quite appalled by their choices in Full Circle -- the extent of the pain they inflicted on the people close to them is nearly unforgivable, in my view. (Tom's mother, for example, is still under the impression that her granddaughter and daughter-in-law are dead, right? And so she's been living with the grief of that as well as the [real] death of her husband and the long-term departure of her son? I would be very interested in seeing her wrath unleashed.)

Tom and B'Elanna are resourceful, intelligent people, and this was the best plan they could come up with? Clearly, extreme steps need to be taken to keep Miral safe, but this? Anyway, needless to say, I identify with Harry.

Speaking of B'Elanna, I think it's a great plan to make her Fleet Chief. Since it's been established she's a technical genius who can build a state-of-the-art spaceship *by herself*, it would be pretty ridiculous to let that talent and skill go unused. I have great respect for full-time child caregiving, but I realize it isn't for everybody and I have a hard time believing someone like B'Elanna would need to flex her professional muscles to stay happy.

As for Eden -- I've always been on board the Eden train, though I suppose that's because I'm not a big VOY fan and thus don't have a huge attachment to Janeway. I think we need a few more books to get to know her -- we didn't really start to get to know Vaughn, for instance, until the MIssion Gamma books -- but I'm ready to read more.

And as for those who think her story is a retread of Odo's (or worse, that she's a Janeway retread -- does having XX chromosomes automatically make any captain a Janeway retread now?), give me a break. Odo was an incredibly exotic, non-humanoid life form who was discovered and then kept in a laboratory where he was experimented on and otherwise abused during his formative years, after which he remained separate from his surrounding society because of his fundamentally different nature as a shapeshifter. And then, as BrotherBenny noted, when he found his people, they were xenophobes bent on galactic domination.

Eden was found as a small HUMANOID child and raised in a loving home by people who cared deeply about her. Being humanoid, she was able to function "normally" in Federation society, doing things like joining Starfleet and getting married.

Like countless adopted children before her, Eden feels the need to seek out her origins. It's an established literary trope, but it's not a "retread."

Wow, this post turned out longer than I planned. I was just going to make a few cursory comments. And I'll make one more: I agree that this book doesn't put Starfleet in the best light, especially with Meegan's presence in the crew. How in the heck did Reg and Dr. Z manage that?
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Finished yesterday, and will reread it before posting my views.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Just finished and I enjoyed it very much. About half way through I had decided that something needed to happen to the Admiral so that Chakotay could get his command back. I like Eden but the bridge did not feel right with her there.
I must admit that I was at first confused over the "cooperative" between the species. I had to re-read those sections several times to get it right. A little too techinical but I finally got it and once I did it made sense with them idolizing the Borg.
I can see Harry's point in being upset at Tom but hopefully Harry will come to understand why Tom did what he did and stay on Voyager. As a father of two daughters myself I can understands why Tom did what he did to keep his family safe. As best friends as they are, you never know what will happen or who may sneak into a data bank or computer core if they really wanted something. The else people who knew the better.
Over all an excellent book. I was never a Voyager fan (in book form) untill I read Full Circle.
Ms Beyer: You have made a fan with these two. Please keep it up.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Hello friends...

I want to thank all of you who are posting your thoughts. They are, as always, fascinating to read, and I have nothing but respect for your opinions.

I don't know that there is much I can say at this point to address some of the specific concerns most often raised, particularly about the future of these characters. I was charged with resolving the old threads and creating a compelling new landscape for Voyager. Thankfully, it seems that most of you are on board with the new direction, whatever your feelings about the strengths and weaknesses about Unworthy.

I agree that some of the choices involved in restoring some sort of status quo, while opening up future character growth might have seemed a little pat. The fact that I had exactly two books in which to make all of this happen can never be an excuse for what you may think of as lazy story telling. While this universe and these characters were my exclusive domain, I wanted to give as much as I could to all of them and create potential that I would find interesting, both as a reader and a writer within the limits I was given. While I am always happy to take credit for what is wonderful, I am also willing to acknowledge where choices and execution falls short.

At the end of the day, I had to look at where everyone, but particularly Chakotay needed to end up. It was never going to be my intention to keep him from his command indefinitely. What I felt was missing prior to these books was the sense that he actually belonged where he was. It may sound strange, but I needed him to earn it. The center seat of any starship is incredibly important and for me to accept his presence there and to be excited by it, I needed to feel that he wanted it as much as I wanted it for him. In that regard, at least, I am happy with Unworthy, despite what the end of Full Circle might have done to individual reader's expectations.

Those of you who pointed out that editorial shifts had an impact on this novel are not wrong. This is not meant to denigrate in any way Margaret's contribution to this novel. As I said long ago, Marco and Margaret are simply different in their respective sensibilities. The change mid-stream was a challenge and one I fear I did not entirely rise to meet. I can say that from my point of view, the whole process might have been better served with more time. I did, however, accept the assignment and realized much too late exactly how difficult it was going to be to meet my own expectations, let alone the readers.

I don't know what the future holds for Voyager. It was my intention to create a diverse enough sandbox for other writers to run in many different possible directions. Should I be asked to continue telling these stories, I have definite ideas about where I'd like to see things go, but no one should fear for the development of stories yet unfinished. As many have pointed out, there are as many ways to take this forward as there are writers to imagine it and I seriously doubt that re-treading old territory would be high on anyone's to-do list.

So yes, the dangling plot threads were meant to establish a wider arc and hopefully to encourage those of you who enjoyed the story to continue reading. If you found that choice fristrating rather than intriguing, my apologies.

And for those of you who are not yet sold on Eden...time will tell. I did find the comment interesting that her choices would have made sense in the hands of Picard or Janeway, but were somehow less acceptable in her because thus far, she lacks depth. Likely that has much to do with what came out on the page, vs. what is in my mind. From where I sit she is a fully formed character, despite what has yet to be revealed. But I don't get points for that, nor do I expect them. Still, I found this really fascinating and don't quite know what to make of it.

For those of you who were less than pleased....perhaps the next author will do better for you. I'd hate to think that my work has soured you on Voyager forever as I think the series remains filled with potential.

And for what it's worth, I call them Indign as in "indeed", just with an "n" at the end, not a "d".

I look forward to continuing to read your thoughts. You are definitely some of my toughest readers, and for that I am grateful. Just know that I'm harder on myself than you could ever be and while I remain pleased, on the whole, with Unworthy, this is one of the few instances in my work where I can honestly say that I remain the littlest but unsettled. I agree with Steve that not every book can be Full Circle, which by its very nature and in its needs forced me to reach beyond anything I had ever before done as a writer. I think I underestimated the toll that writing would take on me, but I was all to conscious of it as I set immediately to work on Unworthy and realized how far I still had to go and how few days there were to get there. I do, however, look forward to future challenges just as great, whether they are set in the Star Trek universe or not.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Kirsten, overall I'm happy with where Unworthy finished, and it would be nice to know where you think things should go, even though I know you're not allowed to say anything. I hope we don't have to wait too long before news of the next Voyager novel comes our way, regardless of who the author is.

You did a bang-up job of getting Voyager back on track, and made new fans of the series along the way, so in the words of Esperanza Piniero, "good job, so far!" (I'd like to see you write more Voyager, but the editors make the final choice, whoever and whatever they may be).
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I agree that some of the choices involved in restoring some sort of status quo, while opening up future character growth might have seemed a little pat.

Well, you managed to work in a lot of present character growth as well. For example...

At the end of the day, I had to look at where everyone, but particularly Chakotay needed to end up. What I felt was missing prior to these books was the sense that he actually belonged where he was. It may sound strange, but I needed him to earn it.
I think it's fair to say he earned it. He went through more in two books than in seven years of TV.

Those of you who pointed out that editorial shifts had an impact on this novel are not wrong. This is not meant to denigrate in any way Margaret's contribution to this novel. As I said long ago, Marco and Margaret are simply different in their respective sensibilities.
Considering how many of my favourite Trek novels in recent years were edited by Marco, I kind of wish we'd seen a version of Unworthy edited just by him. Still, the end result was a solidly entertaining book. In general I like the idea of Trek books series having multiple authors, but in this case, I'd be very happy if you get the chance to move the story and these characters, especially Eden, forward.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I liked this book. Clever bit of engineering by Reg to prevent the Doc from realizing that he was in the room with another hologram. Like the fact that I can still hate on Harry for being so self centered in every decision. Just enough Neelix to make me happy without having to place him in an airlock. Really like the idea of a fleet of ships out exploring. Although after the devastation by the Borg would Starfleet really send out a group of ships anywhere? Could it spare them when so many worlds need to be rebuilt?
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Really like the idea of a fleet of ships out exploring. Although after the devastation by the Borg would Starfleet really send out a group of ships anywhere? Could it spare them when so many worlds need to be rebuilt?
Well, part of the reasoning behind the fleet is to make sure the Borg are all gone. And even if the Collective is gone, there were scattered semi-independent splinters to wonder about. Then there's the matter of keeping track of who or what tries to expand into the void left by the Borg.
 
Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^^ Plus it's only something like 10 ships (give or take a couple as I dont remember the actual total offhand). Having those ships go off an important mission into the Delta quadrant isnt going to impact the recovery and rebuilding missions in the Alpha Quadrant any.
 
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