I don't think that Kes had to depart the series in order to make room for Seven. They both could have helped each other through their transitions, and Kes could have been a better mentor with more patience, than Janeway.
VOY before and during the 7/9 era
- Thread starter Mach5
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^ Well the original plan was for Harry Kim to be eliminated from the show - which partially explains Seven of Nine's scientific and operations abilities as she would have been his replacement. Garret Wang commented on this at a convention that he knows the only reason his character wasn't killed off was because he was named one of People Magazines sexiest men the year that they were deciding who to kill off.
As for me: I prefer the Seven era.
As for me: I prefer the Seven era.
You know, I hear this a lot as the reason and I only have 2 questions, as if I knew nothing about Voyager:
1) Who the hell is Garrett Wang
2) Who was the competition that year and why weren't they chosen.
Furtados_Feet
Lieutenant
Garret Wang played Harry Kim silly.
I'm asking those questions as if I didn't know that. Not everyone in the US loved Star Trek Voyager ya know.
On this I totally agree.
I didn't want them to dump anyone to make room for a new character. They didn't do that when Worf joined DS9.
I wish they would have kept both characters. Seven was just awesome from the get go and the character of Kes was finally making progress in Season 3. Kes was becoming more sure of herself, more assertive. Both characters had a lot to offer.
I think it comes down to that same old bitch, UPN. I love the network for giving us the show but hate how restrictive they were with the budget and plot. Just imagine how much better the show could have been if it had the freedom syndication gave DS9.
I think it comes down to that same old bitch, UPN. I love the network for giving us the show but hate how restrictive they were with the budget and plot. Just imagine how much better the show could have been if it had the freedom syndication gave DS9.
"Kes "going all of a sudden" made me stop watching Voyager for two years. When I decided to start watching it again, "Fury" happened and I did quit for good.
As for Seven, there were a lot of things which turned me off that character then. First, she replaced Kes. Second, all of a sudden she became the main character. Third, the catsuit and the obvious attempt to get viewers to use sex and fourth, the silly rantings from those who were in charge of the show what a great move it was to dump the worthless Ocampa and replace her with the "sexy babe" who "saved the show".
Losing a favorite and at the same time being confronted with the way Seven was marketed did actually annoy me at that time.
Today I can see why people liked the character and that there were more there than just looks, not to mention that Jeri Ryan is a very good actress. "
you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth
although i watched (while originally aired) 2-4, maybe a couple in 5 and then quit forever
i'm currently rewatching it all from the start alongside ds9 and first contact (i'm at season 3 voy, season 5 ds9, first contact area, very good place to be in...kind of for voyager)
originally tho i was really mad kes was removed, i wanted her there at least as a recurring character
when worf came to ds9 they didnt drop anyone
it kind of made me not like seven at first
in retrospect i like her a lot but i still hate the kes removal
As for Seven, there were a lot of things which turned me off that character then. First, she replaced Kes. Second, all of a sudden she became the main character. Third, the catsuit and the obvious attempt to get viewers to use sex and fourth, the silly rantings from those who were in charge of the show what a great move it was to dump the worthless Ocampa and replace her with the "sexy babe" who "saved the show".
Losing a favorite and at the same time being confronted with the way Seven was marketed did actually annoy me at that time.
Today I can see why people liked the character and that there were more there than just looks, not to mention that Jeri Ryan is a very good actress. "
you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth
although i watched (while originally aired) 2-4, maybe a couple in 5 and then quit forever
i'm currently rewatching it all from the start alongside ds9 and first contact (i'm at season 3 voy, season 5 ds9, first contact area, very good place to be in...kind of for voyager)
originally tho i was really mad kes was removed, i wanted her there at least as a recurring character
when worf came to ds9 they didnt drop anyone
it kind of made me not like seven at first
in retrospect i like her a lot but i still hate the kes removal
I'm asking those questions as if I didn't know that. Not everyone in the US loved Star Trek Voyager ya know.
Not everyone outside the US either.
Furtados_Feet
Lieutenant
I always thought Kes's potential was near bursting point just at the end of season 3, they could have done a LOT with her.
I always thought they should have done up the hydroponics bay proper (the one in "Cold Fire" never fails to make me laugh...I'm laughing now) like a real jungle and have her spend some more time in there. It would be nice to say a really cool hydroponics bay in Voyager and make the ship feel more lived in which was certainly a feeling lacking from big grey horrible Voyager.
I always thought they should have done up the hydroponics bay proper (the one in "Cold Fire" never fails to make me laugh...I'm laughing now) like a real jungle and have her spend some more time in there. It would be nice to say a really cool hydroponics bay in Voyager and make the ship feel more lived in which was certainly a feeling lacking from big grey horrible Voyager.
Once again I agree. The scenes in the Hydroponics Bay should have been filmed in a real greenhouse. That would have made it more realistic.
And yes, I got the impression that Kes would become an even more important character after the break with Neelix.
After Kes all the way for me! I think the writing improved and the actors were more comfortable in their roles--thats not to say i dont have alot of problems with the show during that time.
But, i am a kes hater so that doesnt help.
But, i am a kes hater so that doesnt help.
I voted 4-7. I love Seven--great character, great actress.
I didn't mind Chakotay and Harry getting less to do, and though B'Elanna and Tom got less to do, at least they launched directing careers that have taken them past Trek, so I can't feel too sorry for them. Plus they got to have a relationship that evolved--and I loved that.
Rewatching seasons 1-3, it strikes me that what we really lost was Janeway/B'Elanna stories, those two had great interactions in the first 3 seasons.
I love the whole series--when I'm actually watching it, I think it's the best or tied with the best of all Trek. I love 1-3, but like 4-7 just a bit more.
Kes was too perky for words...except when she dumped Neelix for no apparent reason. Just not a great character--sort of one note, then acted in inexplicable ways. I don't think they really knew what to do with her--7 seasons would have been too much.
I didn't mind Chakotay and Harry getting less to do, and though B'Elanna and Tom got less to do, at least they launched directing careers that have taken them past Trek, so I can't feel too sorry for them. Plus they got to have a relationship that evolved--and I loved that.
Rewatching seasons 1-3, it strikes me that what we really lost was Janeway/B'Elanna stories, those two had great interactions in the first 3 seasons.
I love the whole series--when I'm actually watching it, I think it's the best or tied with the best of all Trek. I love 1-3, but like 4-7 just a bit more.
Kes was too perky for words...except when she dumped Neelix for no apparent reason. Just not a great character--sort of one note, then acted in inexplicable ways. I don't think they really knew what to do with her--7 seasons would have been too much.
Kes's dumping of Neelix was actually badly handled. It should have taken place during 3-4 episodes in season 2 and been better explained.
As for the writers, if they didn't know what to do with her, then they weren't doing their job and should have been replaced. If an amateur like me can come up with good Kes stories, then I expect the same from professional writers.
As a matter of fact, Jeri Taylor herself managed to come up with two books with a lot of action for Kes while she was stating that "they couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and if you watch season 3, it actually looked like Kes would develope into a more imortant character after the break with Neelix.
Not to mention that they could keep Kim around for 7 seasons despite a clear lack of ideas for development of the character.
As for the writers, if they didn't know what to do with her, then they weren't doing their job and should have been replaced. If an amateur like me can come up with good Kes stories, then I expect the same from professional writers.
As a matter of fact, Jeri Taylor herself managed to come up with two books with a lot of action for Kes while she was stating that "they couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and if you watch season 3, it actually looked like Kes would develope into a more imortant character after the break with Neelix.
Not to mention that they could keep Kim around for 7 seasons despite a clear lack of ideas for development of the character.
I absolutely did not believe that that dumping in warlord would hold water, and if kes agreed with the psycho driving her around like a sexy dodgem car was right and was allowed to make decisions for her that completely changed her life, now that's a conversation that I would have loved to have seen. eight episodes later in Darkling, I went mental: "SHE'S CHEATING ON NEELIX!!!!!!!!!"
I preferred the 7/9 era. The character saved the series for me, and I'm not sure how long I would have stuck with VOY if she hadn't been included. There were several Seven stories, but in general, she really enhanced the other characters. There were plenty of other episodes dedicated to non-Seven storylines. So it all balanced out IMO.
I like all of Voyager but prefer seasons 4-7 due to the dramatic change in the show.
While I don't hate Kes, I don't feel the character or actress at times brought much to the role. Due to not making a lasting impression, I didn't miss her when she was gone. It also felt more natural that not everybody that started out on the journey was going to stay around for the entire trip. It just felt right to have Kes leave.
While I don't hate Kes, I don't feel the character or actress at times brought much to the role. Due to not making a lasting impression, I didn't miss her when she was gone. It also felt more natural that not everybody that started out on the journey was going to stay around for the entire trip. It just felt right to have Kes leave.
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