VOY before and during the 7/9 era
- Thread starter Mach5
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Being a Black male for nearly 40 years, I didn't identify with a young 2 years old White alien girl that only lives 9 years and had the mental powers of a God. That's why I didn't miss her when she left.
Seven, the EMH, Neelix, Tuvok & Be'lanna, all minorities looking for a happy medium of acceptance were traits and characteristics I could identify with. Even Janeway, Tom & Chakotay had semi-issues with this. Kes had no such depth, which is why I found her bland wasted potential. So if they weren't going to make her better, then IMO she served no purpose.
short life span = faster rate of evolution.
Underground for a hundred generations?
She should have been whiter.
Like a Morlock.
A 2000 candle power albino.
Kes was the ultimate Minority, okay her and Seska. She was the only one that tried to leave. Okay, Kes, Seska and the Doctor, but I still think they played him with false memories at the end of that episode when Janeway let him resign his commission to be a professional singer, hell the entire thing might ave been shale just so he'd believe that he had free will, respect and they'd let him go if his heart truly wasn't in the job any more.
And Harry.
Harry wanted to stay put and do it with his space cousins. possibly his space siblings. Goodness gracious, I wish they'd Hansel and Grettled him like the plan laid out.
Okies.
So, she's still not a minority.
Never mind.
Underground for a hundred generations?
She should have been whiter.
Like a Morlock.
A 2000 candle power albino.
Kes was the ultimate Minority, okay her and Seska. She was the only one that tried to leave. Okay, Kes, Seska and the Doctor, but I still think they played him with false memories at the end of that episode when Janeway let him resign his commission to be a professional singer, hell the entire thing might ave been shale just so he'd believe that he had free will, respect and they'd let him go if his heart truly wasn't in the job any more.
And Harry.
Harry wanted to stay put and do it with his space cousins. possibly his space siblings. Goodness gracious, I wish they'd Hansel and Grettled him like the plan laid out.
Okies.
So, she's still not a minority.
Never mind.
I can see your point when it comes to not identifying with the character. As a matter of fact, I don't identify with Kes either. If I should identify with a Voyager character, then it would most likely be Chakotay or maybe Paris.
But I like Kes. And I still wonder why they put down some effort in creating main charaters with the purpose that the viewers should like them or identify with them if they dump them or ruin them.
I must also disagree with your comment about Kes as having the mental powers of a God. She hadn't. Seven had. She could bring back people from the dead and fix everything. The Doctor could do similar things too, due to technology. Kes's mental powers were actually limited (until the writers made them silly in order to get rid of the character but that's another story). Still, Kes is often singled out for having "god-like powers".
As for minorities wanting to be accepted, I guess that Voyager did have a good mixture of such characters and also a good mixture of characters who were the opposite of that. That's why the Voyager characters were so good. A shame that those who were in charge didn't use all those characters in the best possible way.
As I've said before, I watch Trek for escapist entertainment. I accept most whatever they write. So it's very rare for me to think about what could have been. I enjoy the show and enjoy it for what it is, not what it could have been. Shoulda, coulda, woulda can be applied to any show in retrospect.
If you wish to disagree, that's fine and your right but it doesn't change the opinions I have already given. Besides Lynx, it's not like you don't know what my opinion about Voyager, Kes & Seven is after all these years.
^^
Ah, I think you are a Kes fan deep inside.
And no, I have no intention to or even imagine to change your opinion in any way, I'm just presenting mine.
Most of the time I also watch Trek (and some other series as well) for escapist entertainment too. Most of the time I accept what's going on as well. On a few occasions there might be events which turns me off the whole thing. Most of those times I simply quit to watch that series or whatever it is and choose something else instead. I guess the problem with Voyager was that I liked it too much and there was nothing else to run to.
Ah, I think you are a Kes fan deep inside.
And no, I have no intention to or even imagine to change your opinion in any way, I'm just presenting mine.
Most of the time I also watch Trek (and some other series as well) for escapist entertainment too. Most of the time I accept what's going on as well. On a few occasions there might be events which turns me off the whole thing. Most of those times I simply quit to watch that series or whatever it is and choose something else instead. I guess the problem with Voyager was that I liked it too much and there was nothing else to run to.
Furtados_Feet
Lieutenant
I do always find it humorous to hear how the writers allegedly weren't sure what to do with Kes when season 3 was Kes heavy and had two good completely Kes-centric episodes.
2 out of 28 episode season.
Furtados_Feet
Lieutenant
2 episodes had almost nothing but Kes but as a whole Kes was in season 3 a lot, you can't deny she had a lot of screentime in the third season, that's what makes it confuddling.
I honestly don't recall her doing much more than holding a hypospray and saying nothing more than "Yes, Doctor." all season. She may have been on screen but her part was greatly reduced IMO. I remember watching the show during it's original airing and thinking how disappointed I was Kes wasn't making an major contributions to the shows cast.
I agree on that. I also got the impression that Kes would become a more important character after breaking up with Neelix. There were also a lot of episodes in season 3 where Kes played an important part, like "The Swarm", "Warlord", "Darkling", "Before And After" and "Scorpion, part 1".
Note also that Kim got less and less to do during the same period. After "Favorite Son", he almost dissapears.
So my theory is that the original plan was to dump Kim. Then, when that silly inside poll among the staff at "People" magazine showed him among "the 50 most handsome", those in charge decided to dump Kes instead and then they just had to come up about those pathetic fairy tales about "not being able to come up with stories for the character".
Sorry they tried to soft pedal the truth for the audience/fans.
Would you prefer if they had said they flat out didn't like writing for Kes, so they dumped her for that reason?
Two things here...
First, your description is inaccurate. The "50 Most Beautiful" issue has been a staple of People Magazine since the magazine started.
Second, for an Asian American male to be so recognized is a big deal. Asians are pretty invisible on American television.
For TPTB to recognize the added boost this publicity would give them was simply business.
Exactly.
It would also keep with one of Trek's underlying themes of diversity(..and keep away accusations of discrimination) by keeping the only Asian actor and swapping out one other 5 White actors in the cast.
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That hadn't been the truth either since it obviously was a "beeezneeez" decision.
If it had been the truth and they had admitted it, then they would have admitted that they weren't doing what they were paid for and in that case they should have been fired.
If they had been honest, they should have made a statement like:
"We decided to bring in a sexy babe to attract male, teenage viewers and since we are so short of money (or greedy), we felt it necessary to dump one regular. We were about to dump Kim but then the actor was choosed as one of the 50 most handsome by an inside poll among the staff of an important magazine and since dumping Kim also might have enraged parts of the Asian community, we decided to dump Kes instead."
Why is it so hard to be honest?
teya wrote:
Still, that beauty contest is still an inside poll among the staff of a magazine and as such both silly and irrelevant.
If I was a a millionaire and started a magazine, I could order the whole staff to vote for Kes every year. So much for inside polls.
Asians are not that invisible on American televisions. I think that they show up in many series. Besides that, isn't it silly if there are certain quotes who and how many of certain groups of people they has to be in a series?
As for "beeezneeez", I don't accept that as an excuse to treat people bad. But on the other hand, "beeezneez" is constantly killing people and destroying the environment on this planet so I guess everything is allowed when it comes to that.
Asians are even more invisible than Latinos, who are pretty damn invisible given their population numbers.
Asian men are also not thought to be sexy. They are stereotyped as dweebs.
But, once again, Lynx knows better than an American what goes on in the US. You've already patiently explained my own history to me. Are you now going to enlighten the Asians on the board as to their history?
What is up with you people today? This is not the forum to discuss race relations. You can go to Miscellaneous or The Neutral Zone and talk about it all you want. In fact, there are some interesting possibilities here:
1) Asians and their role in television - getting better or worse?
2) The role of history in fictional shows. What are the obligations of the writer in being accurate?
ETC...
It could all be interesting. This just isn't the right place for it.
Folks come here to discuss Voyager. Also, once again keep the personal comments out of the threads. PM someone if you need to or if you prefer put them on Ignore.
Now for those who have forgotten the OP of this thread wanted to discuss Voyager before and after the 7/9 era...
Asians are even more invisible than Latinos, who are pretty damn invisible given their population numbers.
Asian men are also not thought to be sexy. They are stereotyped as dweebs.
But, once again, Lynx knows better than an American what goes on in the US. You've already patiently explained my own history to me. Are you now going to enlighten the Asians on the board as to their history?
teya, why are you always so mean and sarcastic in your replies to my posts? My comments weren't aimed at you personally in any way.
When did I try to explain your own history to you. I don't know you and I haven't commented on anything you've done in your life.
What I've done is to express support for the American Indians on some occasions. Obviously I shouldn't have bothered because whatever I do, I'm the bad guy.
As for TV series, Today I've watched two shows and I'm gonna watch a third later on so let's see what we have there:
1. Cold case. One Latino guy.
2. CSI Miami. One Latino guy.
3. Law And Order SVU. One Asian guy.
Sorry, I wrote my post before you had posted yours.
They pretty much did, where you been?
The writers are also the producers, so firing one or any of the cast for whatever reason is part of their job and shouldn't be fired for doing it. Honestly Lynx, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe you became attached to the wrong character? It was a business decision, not a personal one.
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