Spoilers VOY: A Pocket Full Of Lies By Kirsten Beyer Review Thread

[Idran]

In the earlier numbered Voyager novel series there is a book called "Echoes" which is a sort of sequel to the episode 'Deadlock'. Voyager is orbiting a particular planet and caught in a 'time thingie' ( I don't want to get bogged down in the author's explanation) where myriad universes come together. Prime Voyager is able to see into all these myriad Universes and are able to observed multiple Voyagers orbiting the same planet except in ever other Universe Voyager is missing....because those are the Universes where the Voyager self destructed (a la Deadlock).

Not sure if that is what you are talking about but that was the first thing that came to mind.

That is one of the better early numbered Voyager books btw. I recommend it.

Oh, no, I more mean something like this.

So, let's say Voyager turns on its temporal shields in "Year of Hell". Gets in a firefight with a ship. Then Annorax makes some change so that ship never existed. Because of Voyager's shields, its timeline is still the same, its past is still the same. They remember fighting that ship, and their records say they had a firefight with that ship. And since we know Voyager having temporal shields screwed up Annorax's calculations, that must mean that Voyager's past after they turned on their shields must have been the same too.

So what did the rest of the universe see in that timeline when Voyager was having that firefight?

I'm choosing to imagine they saw Voyager flying around wildly and firing at nothing at all.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I always assumed that the changes wrought by Annorax's ship affected absolutely everything. The entire universe.

I mean, why wouldn't it?

 

[Idran]

Because Annorax's calculations once Voyager got temporal shields were entirely wrong, since when Voyager's temporal shields were up, they were immune to changes in the timeline the same way Annorax's ship was. So that means any past moments when they had their temporal shields up, Voyager must've been doing the same things as before any changes Annorax made too.

 

[David cgc]

Not necessarily. It's possible the exterior effect of Voyager having their temporal shields up was that the Voyager indigenous to the new timeline was replaced by the Voyager with temporal shields that came from the timeline which precipitated the new timeline. I think that's what @Christopher's grand unified theory of Trek time-travel would predict. The pre- and post-erasure timelines would exist in parallel up until the moment Annorax's ship made the incursion, and then the new one would take the place of the old one (except for an object with temporal shields, like Voyager). You also say Voyager's history would only have been protected while the temporal shields were up but, in the episode, it only mattered if the shields were up or down at the moment Annorax's weapon was firing as far as protecting Voyager's history was concerned.

As for why the temporal shields were throwing off Annorax's calculations, the technobabble in YOH was so loose, there's no reason to think it was any kind of classically observable phenomena like Voyager inexplicably playing through the events of the old timeline in the new one. It could've been excess chronitons altered the temporal radiation and made every butterfly in the galaxy beat its wings on the 1-and-3 instead of the 2-and-4, and that threw things off.

 

[Idran]

Eh, fair points, all. You're probably right; I just liked the mental imagery.

 

[Csalem]

You know... I hadn't imagined Farkas as Bea Arthur... I got an impression of an older than Janeway looking woman (but not too old - because, if the average life expectancy of a Human is 150 in the Federation and increasing, then she would be basically middle-aged), with some grayish hair, etc.
Ah yes... the actress that auditioned before Mulgrew for the part of Voyager captain but wasn't really that good in the role - at least Farkas reminded me somewhat of her when she was initially mad at Janeway during 'Eternal Tide'.

Actually I think I just realised who my mental image for Farkas is: Mallory Archer from the Archer animated series. Or maybe a cross between her and Bea Arthur.

 

[Deks]

As far as we know... changes in the timeline were only affected when the temporal wave passed through an area of space.
And in regards to the changes affecting the universe... eventually yes. But those changes as we saw were more localized and predominantly rippled through the past 2 centuries (from the Krenim point of view) because they affected the immediate area and took place in the 24th century.
Those changes however would not have necessarily altered the events of systems with which the Zhaal and Rilnar never interacted or were too far away to be affected immediately by the changes.
So, nothing the Krenim do would have an immediate impact on say the Alpha Quadrant, because they were a long way from getting to there in the first place - maybe if some of the temporal inversion changes were permanent and then we saw what happened centuries into the future in the AQ if the Krenim got to there.
But if the Krenim never really expanded beyond their large amount of space they got in the temporal reset or other inversions before and after Voyager finally destroyed Annorax's time ship, then, the rest of the galaxy's development and histories would be largely unaffected - unless we are talking about stray comets and asteroids that passed through Krenim space but never made it to another planet beyond it to say create life on it, etc.

I can see why Janeway thought temporal mechanics gave her a headache... though in fairness, I seem to like it, and even manage to follow it better than her - then again if I were in her shoes, I'd be similarly unimpressed with Annorax's changes and try to take him down.

In fairness, the wave generated by Annorax's weapon ship might have a specific range after which it would disperse... but I cannot see the wave travelling indefinitely throughout the universe, because even at certain FTL speeds, it would still take time for it to reach the AQ, the border of the galaxy, and beyond until it affected the rest of the universe.
And in the case of Voyager, it would likely even surpass the temporal wave after getting FTL boosts - meaning, how would the ship then be affected? Would we see a shattered version of Voyager travelling back to the AQ in the TW hub?

 

[nickyboy]

I am about to start this and I have a question. I have seen Year of Hell before but not Shattered. Do I need to watch it before reading the book?

 

[Galekarens]

I am about to start this and I have a question. I have seen Year of Hell before but not Shattered. Do I need to watch it before reading the book?

I'd say it might be a good idea to watch Shattered, or at least read a summary about the episode, so at least you know something about what happened, JMO.

PS, Bea Arthur as Capt. Farkas, well no IMO, but how about Dame Helen Mirren.

 

[Kilana2]

It's getting more and more interesting. Diving right into Denzit Janeway's psyche, what she has obviously endured, having a personal stake in fighting that war, is quite gripping.

 

[DimesDan]

Not long finished it, thought it was brilliant.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

I was really into it right up until everyone in the fleet told Janeway that looking for her duplicate's probably-not-dead kid wasn't worth the effort.

 

[star trek]

I just finished it and rated it an above average. I always enjoy Kirstens work. It's always a fast enjoyable read and I never get bored or find myself skipping parts.

With that said it felt too emotional, and not in a good way. Its like almost everyone had these emotional problems they had to sort out, lets react on them, and then afterwards lets hash it out to resolve it ... ugh. It's like I was a reading a dramatic novel than a scifi one.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Good evening everybody,

As usual, I have stayed away too long. There are so many comments here I wish to respond to directly, but the thought of a massive quote and reply post at this point feels impossible. I think what I'm going to do, begging the readers and the moderator's patience, is to do direct responses where I can on some of the past posts and try to stay better up to date going forward. We'll have to see how this goes. But there will likely be multiple posts from me for a bit, which is know is bad form on the board, so again...apologies.

A few general things, however....

First of all, the overwhelming positive response to this book has been such fun, and is, as always, so very appreciated. I love that you guys read these books. That you take the time to come here and share thoughts about them is my favorite super sweet butter cream icing (that really only exists in its proper form in bakeries in the south) on the yummiest of cakes. A lot of people find this particular kind of icing too sweet. Not me. I've never really understood the concept of too much sugar. Your thoughtfulness and kindness are really more than anyone deserves. I know how lucky I am to have readers like you.

I will address some specific questions/comments later but in general, to those who liked Icheb's developing story....yeah! I like having him back. I knew I wanted to see more of him once he returned in Eternal Tide, but I really needed him back in the AQ for the Protectors trilogy. Definitely more to come there and for those who didn't see the potential for romance...go back and read it again. You missed something. A reviewer elsewhere cautioned me not to open that door unless I intended to go through it. Clearly, he or she doesn't know me very well. Consider that door open and falling off its hinges. We're going forward, folks, but in (hopefully) interesting and unexpected ways.

And as to the questions regarding how the temporal buoys worked...oy vey. In my mind, it was as simple as this. The temporal shields protected the buoys the way they protected Voyager from other changes when they were active in YoH and from Voyager's POV they saw changes to the timeline but were unaffected by them. I didn't worry about their existence throwing off calculations. We haven't yet gone deep enough into that math to be terribly specific about that but there's nothing stopping us from revisiting that concept down the road. So relax. If we need to do more with that in the future...we will. Or we won't. You never know. And even if you did, I wouldn't be talking about it yet.

And many thanks for the appreciation of the Q angle. I was a little unsure about that. I saw it so clearly as the ending of the story was coming into focus but in a story with so very much going on it almost felt like too much. In the end I went for it, obviously. I'm glad it worked for so many readers.

As to when the next one is coming out....it's going to be mid-2017 or later. I'm a little behind right now. I can't say much as to the why. Suffice it to say for now that my life is weird right now. Good. Thrilling. Overwhelming. But definitely weird. More so than usual. More to come on that in time. Just know for now that I appreciate your patience and, as always, and working as fast as I can.

Every time I come here and read your thoughts, I go to sleep happier. You really know how to make a girl's day.

KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

...
I'm not currently a fan of Nancy's story... While I love the follow up and seeing results from the previous events, and I love seeing Nancy get some focus, I wasn't expecting the erratic behavior from her. I guess it makes sense, but at the same time it seems a bit forced and bizarre. But maybe that's how it's supposed to feel at this point.

....
And having Tuvok back was a welcome surprise, too. I hadn't realized how much I'd missed him. I don't like the dark place he's in... Seems out of character for a disciplined Vulcan like Tuvok to be reacting in such a human way to a tragic loss of a loved one. I get that Vulcan emotions run deep, but it just feels extreme to me. Though I haven't read the Titan books, so perhaps there is more backstory than I am currently aware of. Hoping that we see more of the old Tuvok as this story continues and, hopefully, events help him heal and move on.

Hi Stormy,

Here's hoping that by the time you finished the book you understood the early strangeness of Nancy' story. It was definitely intentional. And as for Tuvok seeming out of character early one...I really was taking this from the end of Tuvok's arc in the Destiny trilogy...specifically that last scene on Deneva with his wife. That scene was shocking for me to read, but once I had, I always knew that I was going to want to go back and address it at some point. That priority was very significant in the early formation of this story. I'd had to put it on hold through the Protectors trilogy because it couldn't work with the timeline of the other books so this was the soonest I could possibly address it. Hopefully this made more sense to you once the story ended.

As always,
KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. Since I didn't see anything specified (not to mention in Atonement, another character did get promoted for helping Tom while in the Alpha Quadrant), I wasn't sure if he'd gotten his own promotion.

Also, along the same lines (and going back a few books), was Admiral Batiste a full four-star admiral, or was he one of the lower tiers? Considering he was subordinate to Admiral Montgomery (who, at least implicitly, was a four-star, given he was Vice Admiral Janeway's immediate superior, and subordinate himself to Fleet Admiral Akaar) and his replacement, Afsarah Eden, was a Captain, and Janeway is a Vice Admiral, I was wondering if you had a specific grade in mind for Batiste. (The one thing about TV/film over books, you can always tell an Admiral's (or other ranks such as Commander) grade by their collar or sleeve insignia.)

Batiste and Montgomery would have been peers, probably both on the same level. Batiste chose to lead the fleet...he wasn't ordered to by Montgomery. Their early conversations about the choice to return to the DQ in Full Circle were more a matter of professional courtesy than Batiste answering to Montgomery. Both were below Akaar, but that was about it. I never gave him a more specific rank.

KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Well my nitpick is this(if you haven't read it don't click the spoiler)

Spoiler: Spoiler

Q says at the end that Denzit Janeway was the only one of the Janeways who ever conceived a child. Which is why he chose her as his redemption and forgiving of the Admiral for losing his son. But in the Myriad story "Places of Exile" Janeway also had a child.

This is one of those cases where I wasn't able to make what I had in mind work with a Myriad Universe story. I realize that Q can experience any of the various threads in the multi-verse, so the timeline created in "Places of Exile" could have been included there. But I also needed the Denzit's story to be unique for a lot of reasons. Apologies to Christopher and to any reader flummoxed by this point.

KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Thanks for the reply Kirsten, as always. I also seem to remember at some point it was stated that the First World was 40,000 lyrs from the nearest of the subspace relays, or it might have been 40,000 lyrs from New Talax. I think that was the tidbit that really informed my impression of where it was located. The book Star Trek Star Charts really informs my imaginings of the geography of the Delta Quadrant. Have you seen that book, and do you use it when picturing the distances you're writing about?

I have read and do use Star Charts when I need to. Sometimes it is more applicable than others, and I have to remind myself always to think in 3 dimensions rather than the 2 presented on those pages.

KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Finished it. What a ride. Loved the ending because it was so unexpected. I had resigned myself to the old tired 'reset button' but Kirsten surprised us. I enjoy how the episodes from the show are tied together with the new adventures.

Before this my favorite of the Re-launch stories was probably Unworthy but this one is right up there beside it.

Question. Is this the end of the first year of the mission in the Delta Quadrant? I've lost track of the time.

This marks the beginning of the second year. They just passed their one year anniversary back in the DQ between Atonement and PFoL.

KMFB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

That was simply amazing. As always, Kirsten's work with these established characters in spot on, and the new characters are as good as ever. Nancy's story not only broke my heart, but Kirsten's willingnes to approach this subject in TrekLit..... Hoorah!!!!

As for the overall plot.... There were some points where the temporal mechanics had me unfocused for a bit, but it helped that Kirsten didn't make it the main issue, so it was easy enough to simply accept that it happens in a certain way and move on.

Spoiler: Little thing about the ending.....

Including Q in the end was a lovely touch, and wrapped up that little hanging thread perfectly, without actually making a huge fuss about it. Perfect. Just perfect.

Overall, simply another great entry into Voyager's ongoing story. Everytime Kirsten announces a new novel, I get excited. A little dread is in there as well, where I think, will this finally be to much for her? Is she still capable of coming up with good new stories for this part of TrekLit? And the answer is, yes. She really is.

Thanks so much, Mage. You are too kind.