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Yes... Icheb's general reaction to Bryce and him getting all flushed and all pretty much gave me the impression they might become an item.
I can see why it wouldn't necessarily wouldn't be developed in this book... but in the upcoming novel(s)... yes.
It would be good to see Conlon's suggestions about the bioneural circutry being implemented.
SF's technology is radically advanced and has a big potential to be pushed past the current levels.
Oh btw... 1 little mistake I think I found... Warp 6 being able to cross 3 light years within 1 hour?
Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly against it as it shows a good technical progression, but that would mean the warp scale was redefined again, and that this time Warp 6 is actually faster than Warp 9.9 (4 billion miles per second) when Paris said so in the 37's episode.
Oh btw... 1 little mistake I think I found... Warp 6 being able to cross 3 light years within 1 hour?
Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly against it as it shows a good technical progression, but that would mean the warp scale was redefined again, and that this time Warp 6 is actually faster than Warp 9.9 (4 billion miles per second) when Paris said so in the 37's episode.
Warp speed doesn't really hue specifically to any specific references or not, it's literally never been consistent across any on-screen material even with specific speed references like that. The in-setting explanation in Treklit is that the practical speed of a given warp factor fluctuates based on the nature of the subspace metric along a given course and that that's why it's necessary to chart a course between two distant points rather than just heading in a straight line through the essentially-empty vacuum of space.
Finished this yesterday. And I'm glad I stuck with this series despite the last 4 very mediocre entries as this is certainly the best part since Children of the Storm... despite it featuring not just one Janeway (which is already often too much), but 2.
* Icheb
Loved him, he felt like a real person, not just a prodigy. And I was definitely like "Oh, little Icheb has a crush" when he met Bryce, so I'm looking forward to seeing more of them. Which brings me to my next point:
* fleshing out the crews
Of course, the focus lies on the TV-crew, but I love (and that's what has carried me through the last 4 books as well) how the crews of the other ships get introduced bit by bit. This time it was Bryce, but also Dr. Sal and Farkas, we got glimpses into the inner workings on Demeter (aside from O'Donnell and Fife whom I still both love to bits) with lots of potential for future characterization of the chief engineer and his issues. And on Voyager itself there's Sharak, another part which made the last trilogy bearable, and Cambridge who I feel still needs some substance. But then again, he has to redeem himself with me for his ridiculous angsting over his relationship with Seven lately. Then there's
* Conlon
I understood some of her motivations, especially trying to make the computer systems more impervious to outside influence. She has a lot to work through after all. But I thought that plot thread went off the rails at the end. I don't quite see the need to sequester her off on the Galen. Granted, she's borderline suicidal (much as B'Elanna was back in season 5) and she's suffering from a degenerative disease. But isolating her? Can't the medical tests be run on Voyager where she has friends (and Cambridge as a counselor)? And why not let her work (of course under supervision and psychological treatment)? Right now her immune system is down, okay, but the various doctors didn't judge her as susceptible to infections yet for that to be a reason for isolation. And if it's a syndrome that Xolani gave her... well, isn't there some kind of copy of her from before in the transporter buffers that could be used as a template for her genetic material? I guess the transporters have been used for more outrageous deus-ex-machina solutions before.
I'm glad, though, that a not easily curable disease popped up in Star Trek for once. I'm just wary where this is going. And I'm not even talking about the baby, because the way I see it, Conlon didn't really reject the idea of a baby, but is in such a fatalistic mood that she can't reconcile any inkling of hope with her situation. The doctors, though, tread quite a fine line, more or less forcing her to have the baby for the sake of its stem cells (but even it she decides to abort they'd still be able to use the embryonic stem cells). First of all, it's Conlon's decision to undergo a certain treatment and her (and Kim's) decision to have a baby. I fear in this we are getting quite close again to the Troi-dilemma of Gods of Night.
* Paris, B'Elanna, Seven
I'm glad they took a bit of a back seat in this - quite frankly I'm a bit tired of the Paris-family issues.
* Tuvok
I was looking forward to seeing him since Eternal Tide. I haven't read any Titan novels since Over a torrent sea (which I barely remember save for the aquatic lifeforms), so I don't know anything about his arc there. But I think with this novel the open ends with Voyager have been solved.
I absolutely liked his connection with denzit Janeway... somehow it felt more true to their original relationship than anything Voyager managed to show from season 3 or 4 upwards. Both have been changed by atrocious events, both are damaged but the core of their relationship is still there. And I can totally relate to that - and even to the trust issues that are mentionned in the end. Granted, his hiding the fact that there's a child involved wasn't really a rational decision, but then again, Tuvok wasn't in a rational place, esp concerning a child, right then (and considering all the manipulation of his spirit he went through in the series and beyond, where practically every other week his Vulcan shields were damanged, his not being the "perfect Vulcan" anymore does make sense). The way I see it, he wanted to spare denzit Janeway the pain of needlessly losing her child, the pain of seeing her world come crashing down even more than it already has, the same pain he is going through. Which helped him to finally address his own issues and sort of start relating to his friends and extended family again instead of pushing everyone away.
BTW, is there a reason why Tuvok who is a lt. commander is called Lieutenant? That was kind of pet peeve in the series and pops up here as well.
* the main plot
I have to admit that at some points I couldn't quite follow all the twists and turns of who did what when - reminded me a bit of the multiverse/Omega/Q-technobabble of Enternal Tide, to be honest. So let me see if I got this straight: The Year of Hell happens, Voyager issues buoys which are time-shielded. The whole year gets reset when Voyager destroys Annorax's ship - but the buoys still exist because they're shielded. The Krenim find the buoys, get interested in Janeway and decide to investigate her further. They create the anomaly in Shattered by sending a chroniton torpedo on the past Voyager and pluck past Janeway through the anomaly (intending for it to be "our" Janeway). So actually since that moment there have been 2 Janeways in "our" universe?
The technobabble aside, as said above, no matter how she came into being, I liked denzit Janeway. She absolutely felt like a plausible continuation of pre-season 1 Janeway, she's utterly human and lost, in short relatable which our Janeway hasn't been since, well, about season 4 when Tuvok and Chakotay were shoved aside (see Scorpion, see Equinox etc) in favour of Seven and Janeway lost her vulnerability a bit. And honestly, I share those trust issues which are a recurring theme since she never bothered to actually explain her decisions and motivations in the later seasons and onwards. Of course, as captain she doesn't have to, but if she wants her officers to trust her than she has to - because trust is earned. What I absolutely didn't like was the way our Janeway was kind of deified. I guess after Eternal Tide she can walk on water, everyone is in awe of her and "what she's been through". Well everyone suffered on Voyager and it's high time that Janeway somehow becomes human again instead of that super-human being who came back from the dead. Beyer seems awfully fond of Janeway - which isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course -, but I'm really waiting for some flaws in her character to appear and be addressed. Because right now she's a kind of shining beacon of virtuousness who can do no wrong. And I'm sick of that.
All the twists and turns definitely kept me on my toes. Dayne goes from being denzit Janeway's saviour to her tormentor, back to being her tormentor and her saviour... I absolutely liked that, and the way he manages to save her and Mollah (well, I guessed who she was when the Janeways went through the portal the first time - but I love the origin of her name *g*) in the end with Q's interference. BTW, Cambridge heard the bit about the daughter being dead back in the cave, but our Janeway didn't? Did she appear from the time portal so much after denzit Janeway and Cambridge? Anyway, Dayne definitely redeems himself with these actions in my opinion and suffers for it at the hands of his brother - I hope at some point the Krenim will be revisited and maybe Dayne can be rescued (even if he can't be reconciled with his wife and daughter during denzit Janeway's lifetime).
To make a long review short, a great book, definitely the best Trek-novel in quite some time.
So I've actually been away from anything Star Trek related for about six months now. And while I was aware that Pocket Full of Lies was due to come out, it didn't cross my mind to buy for two reasons: 1) I've recently been caught up in all the X-Files mania, and have spared little thought for anything other than that and my studies. 2) Honestly? The blurb didn't sound appealing at all. Another Janeway? Really? I was shocked, as this seemed the kind of grasping-at-straws plot that an author of much lesser caliber than KMFB would take on.
However, in the last week or so I seemed to have snapped back to a purely Star Trek-jag, (This is relatively typical of me, to bounce back and forth between certain fandoms) and remembered that this book existed. While, as I said before, the blurb left me less than thrilled, I knew that KB likes to throw in little details and character developments that don't necessarily pertain to the main storyline. So after deliberation I ordered it, and it arrived yesterday.
I'm on chapter 3, and have loved everything so far. I'm happy to spoil myself for the the plot, which is why I'm on here, and I must say I'm still not thrilled with the prospect of a second Janeway (and a child?? Krenim?? Year of Hell?? ) I don't know, it still seems a little strange, but I accept that I don't have the context of the whole book in which to take it. I had considered skimming a lot of it until I revisited here. You all seem to have enjoyed the main plot so much that I should probably pay attention, and I trust KB to come through. I'll just hold on and see where it takes me.
I was kind of *gulp*face_palm* at reading about the addition of yet another Janeway into the story. But actually, I'd have loved to see more of her and have our Janeway vanish (again). *g*
Especially since in Star Trek: Titan Tuvok is a full Commander (he was promoted in Voyager's original first-post-series book, Homecoming, along with the rest of the crew, if I recall correctly).
Finally got around to reading this as I lay on the nude beach on Hawaii. Really should have suncreamed my back more.
I too am thrilled that i interpreted Icheb correctly here - it was so cute seeing him get all blushing and fluttery about Bryce without quite seeming to peg that was what was going on. I wanted the story to go back to that more - MOAR Icheb being adorable and clueless and crushing on a cute boy! And then when it didn't go any further, I was worried that I'd misread it in the first place. So I am very happy to read that you intended it that way, especially considering my recent diatribe about the fall in LGBT representation in the books.
The thing about Icheb is not only that is he a 'teenager' and was his sexuality never explicitly established, but he was also a Borg for most of his adolescent years. He had no concept of his sexuality or anyone else's while he was a part of the collective, so it makes sense that his development in that area might be somewhat delayed compared to his biological age. It is an opportunity to have a character 'discover' that he is gay in a way that you couldn't do with most Federation teenagers (Jake or Wesley for example) because it presumably would not be an issue for them and there is no 'discovering' to be done. So I look forward to seeing where that story goes in the future.
This is also the first book where I really felt like I could get a a handle on Conlon aswell. I've said before that I never really distinguished her as an individual on the da Vinci and that carried over to Voyager. But here she got the most character work she has ever had, and it was wrenching. That is some serious shizz you've put her through here, and now I feel like I know who she is in a way I never did before. (Although I don't remember which SCE story you were referencing - perhaps I stopped reading before that point.) Even more so because it was not really connected to the plot at all but just a character story.
Also Tuvok - dayumm. Again some of the best work that has ever been done with that character, and something that Titan largely seemed to skip over. In general I'm not entirely happy with Titan's tendency to leave months and even years at a time between books, or with Voyager's recent tendency to cram so many events into so short a time. My personal taste would be for somewhere between the two extremes. But this certainly shows how Voyager's model can work to its advantage by allowing room for this kind of reaction on Tuvok's part. His story was one of the strongest parts of the novel.
But technically he died and a dublicate returned. Fun Fact: The fate of the sucked-into-space Harry in Deadlock was revealed in the STO mission Dust to Dust.
Well, technically both copies were equally the "original" and equally the "duplicate." There was no way to define one as more original than the other. Harry and baby Naomi simply came from one of the two equal products of the split while the rest of the ship and crew came from the other.
I know Christopher referenced something from "A Less Perfect Union" that happened before the split-point (the Ramatis Choral Debates at Babel in the 18th century) in "Tower of Babel", and his own Myriad Universe entry specifically crossed over with both the "Year of Hell" timeline and the Prime timeline.
Well my nitpick is this(if you haven't read it don't click the spoiler)
Q says at the end that Denzit Janeway was the only one of the Janeways who ever conceived a child. Which is why he chose her as his redemption and forgiving of the Admiral for losing his son. But in the Myriad story "Places of Exile" Janeway also had a child.
This is one of those cases where I wasn't able to make what I had in mind work with a Myriad Universe story. I realize that Q can experience any of the various threads in the multi-verse, so the timeline created in "Places of Exile" could have been included there. But I also needed the Denzit's story to be unique for a lot of reasons. Apologies to Christopher and to any reader flummoxed by this point.
That did bug me a bit, I admit. Although I'm also saddened by the implication that Places of Exile Janeway died on the same day as all the others, only about four years and four months after the PoE epilogue.
Then again, I've never considered Q to be the most reliable narrator. Maybe he had a reason for not admitting the existence of PoE Janeway? Or maybe that timeline was hidden from him in some way? There are always possibilities...
Oh, and there was one continuity glitch I noted, Kirsten. You said that Will and Deanna's baby was about 6 months old when Chakotay met them, but Natasha was born on July 21, 2381, while APFoL is set in June to July '82, so she'd actually be around 11 months old at that point in the story.
If I've understood Ryan correctly, "south" would equate to "in the direction of Alpha/Beta Quadrants", and "Eastern" would be towards the Galactic rim. So that would put his idea of the Confederacy's location roughly near the Delta-Beta border. Right about where the Perseus arm disperses into the wild black yonder, according to recent theory. (Subject to correction by GAIA's mapping efforts.)
Of course, he might be thinking in 3-D mapping terms - always more sensible when dealing with this sort of thing - in which case, I'm not sure what should constitute "galactic south".
Galactic north and south are measured perpendicular to the galactic plane, and correspond to which sides of the plane the Earth's north and south poles are oriented toward. Of course, Earth's axis is tilted quite a bit relative to the galactic plane, but celestial north is in the half of the sky that's considered galactic north, etc. To be more precise, the galactic north pole is in the direction of the constellation Coma Berenices and the galactic south pole is toward Sculptor. (Which is actually defining it backward compared to planets. On Earth, if you look down from planetary north, the planet is rotating counterclockwise, which is basically how we define the north and south poles of planets in general. But if you look down at the Milky Way from galactic north, it's rotating clockwise.)
To keep it simpler, in Star Charts terms, galactic north would be upward from the page and south downward.
I agree with the idea that the temporally shielded buoys would most likely not really affect anything... but I got the impression during the YOH episodes that it was the temporal shields that threw off Annorax's inversion.
No; rather, it was the fact that Voyager survived because of the temporal shields that his calculations were thrown off. Because the shields kept Voyager's history from changing to fit the new timeline, that means that Voyager wasn't where he'd calculated it to be, and that disrupted his delicate calculations. So it wasn't the shields themselves that interfered, it was their effect, i.e. Voyager's allochronistic presence (I think that would be the term for something that was in the wrong parallel timestream -- or at least it sounds like it could be).
Obviously, the ship's participation in various events would have to be taken into account... but Voyager hadn't done that much except running from the Krenim and sitting there when the wave hit them and interacted with the shields - which Obrist himself said was enough to throw off their calculations.
Well, I'm not sure how to justify that. Basically "Year of Hell"'s temporal theory was a ludicrous mess and it's best not dwelled on too closely.
Hence I was wondering if the temporal shields on buoys would have done the same, possibly even helped reset the timeline... or, since they were hidden from everyone as you say, they merely survived the temporal reset without affecting anything else and sat there until they could be found - which begs the question, how the heck did the Krenim get access to the buoys and their logs so they could alter them for alternate Janeway?
Unless I missed that part in the novel.
I think temporal shields are basically the same thing as the phase shielding used by the DTI to protect its archives from timeline shifts. Kirsten and I actually talked about this on the phone a while back -- it sounds like they're exactly the same, but they must be different in some way because the Federation has phase shielding but not temporal shielding. Anyway, what happens is that when the timeline changes around a shielded item, it's insulated from the change and remains a leftover bit of the old timeline contaminating the altered one. They don't affect or facilitate the timeline reset in any way -- they just survive it.
If you were using a powerful telescope to see the light from the past, you'd see the light from your past. If you were looking at that ship, you'd see your timeline's past version of it, not the one that (from your perspective) replaced it at the moment the timelines converged. I assume the same would go for using some kind of temporal wormhole to look into the past -- you'd still be seeing your version of the past, unless your "time viewer" had the ability to cross timelines.
Not necessarily. It's possible the exterior effect of Voyager having their temporal shields up was that the Voyager indigenous to the new timeline was replaced by the Voyager with temporal shields that came from the timeline which precipitated the new timeline. I think that's what @Christopher's grand unified theory of Trek time-travel would predict. The pre- and post-erasure timelines would exist in parallel up until the moment Annorax's ship made the incursion, and then the new one would take the place of the old one (except for an object with temporal shields, like Voyager). You also say Voyager's history would only have been protected while the temporal shields were up but, in the episode, it only mattered if the shields were up or down at the moment Annorax's weapon was firing as far as protecting Voyager's history was concerned.
I think that might be taking the "wave" too literally. I saw it more as a visual representation of the effect of the temporal change, rather than the actual physical cause of the changes. But, again, "Year of Hell"'s temporal physics = completely silly gibberish.
And in regards to the changes affecting the universe... eventually yes. But those changes as we saw were more localized and predominantly rippled through the past 2 centuries (from the Krenim point of view) because they affected the immediate area and took place in the 24th century.
Those changes however would not have necessarily altered the events of systems with which the Zhaal and Rilnar never interacted or were too far away to be affected immediately by the changes.
Basically, yeah, but not in quite that way. The thing I learned when researching many-worlds theory and time-travel physics is that when we talk about "timelines," that's kind of a simplification for interacting ensembles of particles. The "world" that splits into two or more alternate versions is not the entire universe all at once, but just everything that's directly or indirectly affected by the changed item, propagating out through the chain of interactions. So anything too far away to be part of that chain of interactions would be unaffected by the change. In a universe without FTL, that would mean the changes would only propagate outward at the speed of light, and might have little effect beyond a single planet or star system (unless someone in another star system years later is able to measure your system with sufficient sensitivity to perceive whatever it is that changes). In the Trek universe, changes could propagate a lot farther and faster, but there could still be limits on how far a change effectively propagates. A change in the history of a planet never contacted by the Federation would have no real impact on the Federation's history.
So instead of having the entire universe branch out into a bunch of parallel versions, as is usually assumed, it's more like the universe would have pockets within it that contain multiple parallel states, which might not have any effect on the timelines in some other distant part of the universe -- at least, until they begin to interact with each other.
That did bug me a bit, I admit. Although I'm also saddened by the implication that Places of Exile Janeway died on the same day as all the others, only about four years and four months after the PoE epilogue.
All Janeways have to die at that point in time but that doesn't mean that they can't be revived as seen with both admiral Janeway (by Q, so that probably doesn't coun't as normal) and denzit Janeway. PoE Janeway could suffer from a heart attack die and be revived without any permanent damage, if I got this right.
Oh, and there was one continuity glitch I noted, Kirsten. You said that Will and Deanna's baby was about 6 months old when Chakotay met them, but Natasha was born on July 21, 2381, while APFoL is set in June to July '82, so she'd actually be around 11 months old at that point in the story.
All Janeways have to die at that point in time but that doesn't mean that they can't be revived as seen with both admiral Janeway (by Q, so that probably doesn't coun't as normal) and denzit Janeway. PoE Janeway could suffer from a heart attack die and be revived without any permanent damage, if I got this right.
No, both of those were a Q cheating the universe. The ending of the book showed that Denzit Janeway also only survived by virtue of a Q intervention, with Q posing as a passing doctor. Without one stepping in, there's no way around it, no "revived from a clinical death" loophole.
No, both of those were a Q cheating the universe. The ending of the book showed that Denzit Janeway also only survived by virtue of a Q intervention, with Q posing as a passing doctor. Without one stepping in, there's no way around it, no "revived from a clinical death" loophole.
I finally had time to star Reading this book. I've read Nine chapters so far and I really am curious how story of Dazit Janeway's story will be revealed in this book.
I'm halfway through reading Pocket full of lies and I have to say the Kremin featured this book are certainly control freaks trying to manipulate timelines in their favor at the costs to other alien planets and Cultures .And the backstory of Denzit Janeway and what they did to her was awful.I felt bad for her.I also liked how Nancy Conlon's experience with Xolani was handled well and Tuvok's story too.I finished the book last night. I really am glad that Denzit finally got a happy ending she deserved it after all she went through. I'm also liked the wrapup of Tuvok's story line and the scenes he had with both the different Janeways. I also wonder what will happen to Nancy Conlon and Harry Kim in the next Voyager novel. I voted Excellent for this story .I couldn't put this book down.All of Kirsten Beyer's Voyagers are really great stories.
With Icheb and Bryce I never got any romantic rift between them. What I did get between them was a strong sense of friendship. And that they would grow to be best buddies. Kind of like the friendship we see betwweenKirk and Spock and Kirk and McCoy.
With Icheb and Bryce I never got any romantic rift between them. What I did get between them was a strong sense of friendship. And that they would grow to be best buddies. Kind of like the friendship we see betwweenKirk and Spock and Kirk and McCoy.
I'm glad, though, that a not easily curable disease popped up in Star Trek for once. I'm just wary where this is going. And I'm not even talking about the baby, because the way I see it, Conlon didn't really reject the idea of a baby, but is in such a fatalistic mood that she can't reconcile any inkling of hope with her situation. The doctors, though, tread quite a fine line, more or less forcing her to have the baby for the sake of its stem cells (but even it she decides to abort they'd still be able to use the embryonic stem cells). First of all, it's Conlon's decision to undergo a certain treatment and her (and Kim's) decision to have a baby. I fear in this we are getting quite close again to the Troi-dilemma of Gods of Night.
.
I found the scene with the doctors quite odd including the outbursts where they basically try and strong arm her into keeping the embryo (if she's seven weeks pregnant, the use of 'baby' is a loaded term for my tastes*). Even leaving that aside - what's the preoccupation with the characters having children that seems to have overtaken the TNG books?
Hopefully they abort it between books and the female character isn't 'punished' for that choice as they are in so much literature.
* remember I'm English and the abortion question here isn't discussed in the same way as it in the US.
I don't know why but the thing that bothers me most in this book is the way they keep going after denzit Janeway after she keeps telling them to go away and leave her alone. What ever happened to self determination?
I'm just hoping for a reasonable discourse here - the final decision has to make sense and not be forced by outside orders. (And quite honestly, I don't need another child on VOY, Torres' child issues are quite enough already.)
I don't know why but the thing that bothers me most in this book is the way they keep going after denzit Janeway after she keeps telling them to go away and leave her alone. What ever happened to self determination?
Yes, this bothered me as well - what exactly was their problem with one person leading a faction in a (more or less contained) civil war? I didn't think that the denzit was particularly unreasonable (quite the contrary, as I preferred her to "our" Janeway)... so is it just the fact that she didn't follow our Janeway's path, didn't conform to our enlightened Janeway's rules? It's not that her existence/actions threatened the universe or something like that.
And yes, I don't like our Janeway, never have (from season 4 onwards), never will... and Beyer's attempts to turn her into some kind of "can't do no wrong"-woman (who's surprised that people don't quite trust her without her having to explain her whims once in a while) won't change that.
) I don't know, it still seems a little strange, but I accept that I don't have the context of the whole book in which to take it. I had considered skimming a lot of it until I revisited here. You all seem to have enjoyed the main plot so much that I should probably pay attention, and I trust KB to come through. I'll just hold on and see where it takes me.
