Voth?

[XKin]

I have recently got into Star Trek, and I was reading up about the Voth. It says they are from Earth but how is this possible? Did they develop before humans then leave to let humans develop or what?

Sorry if this is obvious, I am not a genius the Star Trek Cannon.

Thanks :]

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Intelligent humanoids that evolved from dinosaurs, then left Earth/ transplanted to the other side of the Galaxy 65 million years ago, before/when the dinosaurs became extinct on Earth.

Question:- In the intervening aeons, why didn't they evolve further into omnipotent energy beings?

 

[XKin]

The Laughing Vulcan said:
Intelligent humanoids that evolved from dinosaurs, then left Earth/ transplanted to the other side of the Galaxy 65 million years ago, before/when the dinosaurs became extinct on Earth.

Removed by other beings to protect them or were they intelligent enough to leave by themselves by then?

P.s Hope your question gets answered.

 

[Anwar]

It wasn't answered whether they survived the meteor impact and just took all their tech with them without a trace left behind, or if they were saved by the Preservers and moved elsewhere. It was left ambiguous.

And we don't know how long it takes to evolve into energy beings, because they sure had a long way to go before they turned from Dinosaurs into more intelligent creatures. Evolving into their current form is what they probably spent most of the 65 million years doing.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Not everyone is cut out to be an energy being.

 

[Crewman47]

Were the Voth seeded on Earth, like we were by the Ancient Humanoids seen in TNG's The Chase or did the naturally evolve on the planet?

 

[Anwar]

The Voth are descended from dinosaurs who either survived the meteor impact millions of years ago, or a group of dinos were taken from the planet by someone and put on a Delta Quadrant world to continue evolving while the rest of them went extinct here.

Possible both the Voth and the ancestors of humans were the result of the Progenitor seedings.

 

[Tzenkethi]

Shouldn't it have been a predatory species that evolved into the Voth? the species shown in Voyager - Parasaurolophus was a herbivore.

 

[Vanyel]

Anwar said:
Possible both the Voth and the ancestors of humans were the result of the Progenitor seedings.

That I can agree with, there really is no reason why two or more intelligent species could have formed (The Xindi come to mind).

However, what I think happened was that the Voth had a level of technology maybe less than a hundred years above our current level. They most likely developed on a large island or small continent that was free of the major predators of the time (i.e. T-Rex, Allosaurus). But did have some predators in order to help spur evolution (family/tribal groups, using tools to hunt, or defend themselves from predators, language).

They then were able to tame their land and develop advanced technology. They most likely saw the dinosaurs maybe even studied them, but kept away knowing that these creatures were too large and too numerous to tame. Then again, they might have simply been very eco-friendly and left them be knowing that their homes were protected by ocean.

They saw the changes happening on Earth, increased volcanism, geological instability, which they might have figured to be survivable. That is until the asteroid was spotted. They predicted the time of its impact, and using every resource they had, they fled into space.

That further spurred technological advancement until they reached the state that Voyager saw them at.

Why wasn't any trace of them ever found? One explanation is that their home was at or near ground zero for the impact. Another is that their home could have been a volcanic island that exploded and took the remnants of their civilization with them. Or simply, after 65 million years of disrepair their civilization vanished through erosion, and reclamation.

 

[Cyke101]

^In addition Vanyel's post, I want to add that their own societal and philosophical beliefs stunted their technological growth. Ie, for quite a while, they thought that achieving transwarp would be a form of blasphemy.

 

[UnknownSample]

Cyke101 said:
^In addition Vanyel's post, I want to add that their own societal and philosophical beliefs stunted their technological growth. Ie, for quite a while, they thought that achieving transwarp would be a form of blasphemy.

Or more simply, not everyone is cut out to be energy clouds.

I know it happened a lot in ST, but I question how often evolution would lead in that direction. First, there's the assumption being made here that evolution is inevitable and always leads to a species bettering itself. It's not-- it's adaptation. In certain environments, evolution could lead to a loss of intelligence, if intelligence proved not to be a good survival chartacteristic in that particular situation. Evolution can go in all sorts of unexpected directions.

A species could be so powerful and therefore comfortable, without any physical threats, that it could become "frozen" in its present form indefinitely. Evolution happens because new conditions combined with vulnerabilities in species make lots of the individuals die. The exceptions who are tougher procreate, and their tougher characteristics are passed on to future generations, and the whole species is tougher, therefore more adaptable. It doesn't necessarily make species smarter. And I can't think of any environmental conditions in which being a hovering energy cloud would help a species to survive.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

UnknownSample said: not everyone is cut out to be energy clouds.

Or *wants* to be.

 

[UnknownSample]

Yes, I would have to be given a list of the much more enjoyable activities clouds engage in, that would be much better than the physical things I get to do now, which require limbs.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

If my memory serves me correctly the Voth were evolved dinsoaurs on Earth and a meteor hit the planet causing catastrophic damage, the planet was now unlivable so they designed and built space fareing vessels and set off out into the stars towards the Delta Quadrant, its unclear whether the ships they built were warp capable or if they were generational ships but I would imagine they were generational and took them a long time to reach the Delta Quadrant, as they headed towards the DQ they developed more advanced technologys and built city ships, of course the city ships may have originally been their generational ship to which they continually upgraded and made bigger over the mellenia which is why they are so big by the 24th century.

 

[hellsgate]

Anyone interested in seeing a "U.S.S. Voyager-A" or "U.S.S. Enterprise-E" era 'shore leave' story with an archeological story plot, involving the Voth?

Featuring amateur archeologists Captain Jean Luc Picard or Captain Chakotay? (Anyone know if Chakotay even has a first name by the way?)

Not set in space, but set beneath the Pacific Ocean or wherever during the (post-Dominion War) continuation of the "The Atlantis Project" (mentioned during Picard's visit home to France several years before?)

 

[trash80]

Yes sounds very interesting.

 

[Frodo Lives]

Although as I understand it, the Atlantis Project from Family wasn't an archaeological expedition but rather an effort to create another continent on Earth.

But that doesn't mean they can't find something interesting while they were doing that...

 

[Deks]

Chakotay to my recollection from episode 'Workforce' does have an actual given name ... Amal Kortei I think.
He used it in an attempt to jog Janeway's memory.

As forthe Voth ...
I think what happened to their people was rather well explained in that episode of Voyager.
A natural disaster struck the planet, the intelligent species that developed from dinosaurs developed space-faring technology and left the planet.

Judging from the conversation between Chakotay and the Voth scientist, it would seem that the Voth at that point in time did not develop Warp technology ... although that is a mere speculation as nothing of the sort is mentioned.
It's entirely possible they developed warp technology, but even with that it took them more than 70 000 years to reach the DQ and settle down.
At low warp factors such as Warp 1, which is presumably the speed of light (although that is a bit questionable to me since FTL means 'FASTER than Light' and not 'EXACTLY as Light'), it would probably take the Voth aroung 70 000 or maybe up to 100 000 years (possibly a bit more) .

 

[Timo]

I think what happened to their people was rather well explained in that episode of Voyager.
A natural disaster struck the planet, the intelligent species that developed from dinosaurs developed space-faring technology and left the planet.

To be sure, the Voth themselves knew little or nothing about their prehistory - it was all guesswork. And so was Chakotay's idea that "asteroids, volcanoes or earthquakes" might have had something to do with the disappearance of the Voth from Earth.

Or to be even more accurate, Chakotay wasn't suggesting that those disasters drove off the Voth. He was merely musing that they could have erased the evidence of Voth existence at some later timepoint.

The Voth might have evolved a technological culture that involved launching at least one space ark, and then lived for a further eleven thousand happy years on planet Earth, and then have been wiped out by some calamity. While their technology might have left some lasting imprints, there is no necessity for it to have done so - we could easily be misreading those imprints as natural occurrences. What would survive after 65 million years? No intact artifacts, or even fragments thereof. At most some fossils - but we all know how unlikely it is for anything to become fossilized. And perhaps some curious layers of refined metals or other rare chemicals here and there - but we already have theories in place for explaining those as "asteroid strikes" or "volcanic dust" or whatever.

Or, for all we know, the Voth tidied up after they left.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

Oh I am perfectly aware that the scene in question was mainly all guesswork ... but it's one of the possible outcomes that could have happened.