Voth?

[Timo]

...Although it would be fun if Dr Gegen and Chakotay were wrong on this, and the Voth never evolved on Earth. Their ancestors might very well have been taken from our planet and let to mature elsewhere into an intelligent, spacefaring and ultimately starfaring species. The "Preservers did it!" theory does have the advantage of explaining why no traces of Voth civilization were found on Earth.

As written and played out, the episode becomes a defense for the freedom to speculate. So it's only fitting that we'd be endlessly debating the possibilities, without coming up with a definitive answer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FordSVT]

The Laughing Vulcan said:
Intelligent humanoids that evolved from dinosaurs, then left Earth/ transplanted to the other side of the Galaxy 65 million years ago, before/when the dinosaurs became extinct on Earth.

Question:- In the intervening aeons, why didn't they evolve further into omnipotent energy beings?

Evolution doesn't have a specific direction, and a species might change rapidly or hardly at all over millions of years. Look at sharks and crocodiles. It's not some kind of law that all intelligent beings will eventually shed their bodies and float around the galaxy. I know that's how Trek often portrays it, but we've also seen very old races that were powerful but also corporeal.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

I find it much more likely to be 'Preservers did it!' for one reason: that the Voth now live in the Delta Quadrant. If the Voth had evolved to be a space-faring race those 65 million years ago and left the Earth on their own steam, why would they decide to go to the trouble of going all the way to the Delta Quadrant?

Of course, they may have had some random cultural/religious reason for ignoring all the perfectly habitable planets between here and there. Or they may have in fact had the misfortune of travelling along a route that *only* had inhospitable planets. Or they could have had a run-in with a hostile empire that chased them across the stars a la BSG. So there are plenty of other possibilities. But I think this is a definite case of Occam's Razor.

 

[Anwar]

Or their entire race lives on that massive City-ship and they are nomads who for some reason don't want to settle on a planet, and they happened to be passing through the DQ at that point in time to encounter VOY?

 

[RoJoHen]

Deks said:
Chakotay to my recollection from episode 'Workforce' does have an actual given name ... Amal Kortei I think.
He used it in an attempt to jog Janeway's memory.

Actually, he chose that name in that episode because he said it was the female version of Chakotay. So it's still the same name.

 

[Deks]

RoJoHen said:

Deks said:
Chakotay to my recollection from episode 'Workforce' does have an actual given name ... Amal Kortei I think.
He used it in an attempt to jog Janeway's memory.

Actually, he chose that name in that episode because he said it was the female version of Chakotay. So it's still the same name.

I don't think so.
The only time I remember the female version of 'Chakotay' being mentioned was by Chakotay himself to Torres when she was pregnant and the crew tried to suggest names for the baby ... Amal Kortei was NOT on the list.
It was Teia I think.

 

[RoJoHen]

Hmmm...

You might be right about that. But I'm pretty sure that the Amal Kortei thing is not his real name. I think it was just a made up name for being undercover.

 

[Stormrage]

Speculating about a silly species whos existance is very unlikely is just sad. Seriosuly. Dinosaurs maanged to evolve into a humaniod shape and become intelligent?

 

[Timo]

Sounds about as likely as rats evolving into humanoid shape and becoming intelligent. And that did happen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Stormrage]

Timo said:
Sounds about as likely as rats evolving into humanoid shape and becoming intelligent. And that did happen.

Timo Saloniemi

When?

 

[Anwar]

Us. We evolved from lesser mammals (rat-like creatures) to apes, and then to humans.

 

[Stormrage]

Anwar said:
Us. We evolved from lesser mammals (rat-like creatures) to apes, and then to humans.

They reason why we are a humanoid shape is because we are descendant of creatures that got that shape. It's very very very very unlikely that a four legged reptile could develop a humanoid shape. Especially when you consider the fact that the environment they grew up in doesn't call for them to stand up.

 

[Anwar]

What about the Dinosaurs who did stand on two feet?

 

[Stormrage]

Anwar said:
What about the Dinosaurs who did stand on two feet?

The ancestors of the Voth didn't stand on two fet.

 

[RoJoHen]

They did when they were projected on the holodeck.

 

[Vanyel]

Stormrage said:

Anwar said:
What about the Dinosaurs who did stand on two feet?

The ancestors of the Voth didn't stand on two fet.

They were thought to be descendant of Hadrosaurs. Hadrosaurs are believed to have been bipedal except while grazing.

 

[Stormrage]

Vanyel said:

Stormrage said:

Anwar said:
What about the Dinosaurs who did stand on two feet?

The ancestors of the Voth didn't stand on two fet.

They were thought to be descendant of Hadrosaurs. Hadrosaurs are believed to have been bipedal except while grazing.

Not comparable to apes and still doesn't explain why they evolved so humanoid when Hadrosaurs were nowhere near that.

 

[Anwar]

Then how did small mammals that crawled around on all fours evolve into apes then? They were just as far as the hadrosaurs were.

 

[Stormrage]

Anwar said:
Then how did small mammals that crawled around on all fours evolve into apes then? They were just as far as the hadrosaurs were.

Probably because we used to live in trees. Hadrosaurus how ever don't live in trees and their skeletal structure is no where near primate skeleton. Besides what are the chances of two intelligent species evolving on the same planet and both of them turn out to have body form.

 

[Vanyel]

Stormrage said:

Anwar said:
Then how did small mammals that crawled around on all fours evolve into apes then? They were just as far as the hadrosaurs were.

Probably because we used to live in trees. Hadrosaurus how ever don't live in trees and their skeletal structure is no where near primate skeleton. Besides what are the chances of two intelligent species evolving on the same planet and both of them turn out to have body form.

Ok, riddle me this: How did a sea living creature without a skeleton, devolup a skeleton, a backbone, then the ability to breath air?

Human evolution does not start with the apes. We use that as a starting point for our species and no other. If we go back far enough we find a common ancestor for all animal life. It goes back to small four legged animals that hid from dinosaurs. Before that from amphibian like creatures, and before that sea dwelling creatures and before that amino acids and proteins.