Vote: Worst Voyager character

[Terok Nor]

I actually liked Kes. I'd have preferred her not to have been written out at all but if the writers are never going to use the character again then what's the harm in giving her this storyline? I agree the resolution was lame but at least she didn't go through with her plans in the end. I don't think Kes or the events of this episode were ever referenced again so it's easy to just pretend it never happened since it had no long term impact on the series.

If you look at it rationally ('it's only a show, we can do what we want as long as we are making good stories and entertaining the viewers'), that's true. But if you're going to 'dump' a character that has been on the main cast for several years, gathered a fanbase, and not giving him or her an at least somewhat nice sendoff, that fan group is going to be annoyed (and I'm just talking about moderate fans here). There's a difference between doing it to such a character and to the one-time-alien we never saw before this episode.

Suppose Tuvok had been revealed to be a Romulan spy in Endgame and met his demise just minutes before VOY reached the alpha quadrant. I suppose the Tuvok fans wouldn't have liked it. Even though in all likelihood, writers were never going to use the character again.

People didn't like the "unneccesary death" of Kirk. The ENT fans didn't like the casual death of Trip- and neither of them went on a rampage and tried to kill their former friends. I suppose people like to see their "hero" end on a positive note.

There is one scene I do like in Fury though, which is the goodbye scene between Kes and Neelix in the transporter room.

I see your point but again I have to say that not all characters end on a positive note. Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax died senseless deaths. At least Kirk got to die saving a planet. Yar was killed by a giant pool of shit and Jadzia was murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think the issue with Kes is that she was no longer a main cast member and the writers had already made it clear they had little interest in her by writing her out in Season 4. I'm not sure if the fan campaign was the reason behind her return or not but they no longer appeared to consider Kes an important character and didn't show any deference to her in Fury. They still cared about the main cast and Kes was no longer part of that so was fair game for whatever they came up with. I can see why it would annoy her fans though.

I also liked that last scene where she asks Neelix if he sees anyhing he recognises and he replies "just you". To me that was a bittersweet way to end her character and I liked it.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In the meantime, I would suggest that we simply skip the Voyager debates and instead have a nice chat about..............cheese!

GET THIS CHEESE TO SICKBAY!

 

[at Quark's]

I see your point but again I have to say that not all characters end on a positive note. Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax died senseless deaths. At least Kirk got to die saving a planet. Yar was killed by a giant pool of shit and Jadzia was murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Only describing what I would like, I know life simply doesn't happen that way, and every now and then, it is only fitting a series should reflect that. (I think, though, that a lot of people really didn't like the Jadzia or the Yar ending).

But if one of 'my heroes' was written out of Trek, I think my personal order of preference would go something like this: "ending on a positive note" > "dying a valiant death for a greater cause" > "dying a senseless death" > "becoming an Evil Berserker". In that respect, the Kes ending is worse than the others for me.

To me, "Fury" falls into the same category as "The return of Chef" (south park)... episodes that IMHO never should have been made as they give a character I liked and that already had left the series previously on a positive or at least neutral note another unnecessary kick in the ....

I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Lynx]

I see your point but again I have to say that not all characters end on a positive note. Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax died senseless deaths. At least Kirk got to die saving a planet. Yar was killed by a giant pool of shit and Jadzia was murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think the issue with Kes is that she was no longer a main cast member and the writers had already made it clear they had little interest in her by writing her out in Season 4. I'm not sure if the fan campaign was the reason behind her return or not but they no longer appeared to consider Kes an important character and didn't show any deference to her in Fury. They still cared about the main cast and Kes was no longer part of that so was fair game for whatever they came up with. I can see why it would annoy her fans though.

I also liked that last scene where she asks Neelix if he sees anyhing he recognises and he replies "just you". To me that was a bittersweet way to end her character and I liked it.

I must state that I didn't like the way they got rid of Yar and Dax either.

There are many reasons why I don't like to see main characters being killed off but on important reason is this: What happens if the series suffer from killing off a main character?

I mean, ratings can go down and people turn their back to it because "XX is no longer a part of it"

OK, we had the classic "Bobby Ewing solution" from Dallas but it would actually be smarter not to kill off the character because it might be possible to bring the character back if something goes wrong.

In the Kes case it was all so wrong. They had already got rid of the character. Why bring her back just to destroy and humiliate the character and insult her fans? If it was the result of the letter campaign, then it was a very cruel and sadistic act from those in charge.

Besides that, I hate "bittersweet endings".

stardream wrote:

Kes shows up in The Eternal Tide. Its a brief appearance. Problem is the re-launch novels are an ongoing story so you would have to read the preceding books to know what is going on.

I haven't read those because I immediately got a bad feeling when I read somewhere that Voyager was going back to the Delta Quadrant.

I suppose that Kes shows up in the story as an ugly, bitter old hag.

 

[Terok Nor]

I see your point but again I have to say that not all characters end on a positive note. Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax died senseless deaths. At least Kirk got to die saving a planet. Yar was killed by a giant pool of shit and Jadzia was murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Only describing what I would like, I know life simply doesn't happen that way, and every now and then, it is only fitting a series should reflect that. (I think, though, that a lot of people really didn't like the Jadzia or the Yar ending).

But if one of 'my heroes' was written out of Trek, I think my personal order of preference would go something like this: "ending on a positive note" > "dying a valiant death for a greater cause" > "dying a senseless death" > "becoming an Evil Berserker". In that respect, the Kes ending is worse than the others for me.

To me, "Fury" falls into the same category as "The return of Chef" (south park)... episodes that IMHO never should have been made as they give a character I liked and that already had left the series previously on a positive or at least neutral note another unnecessary kick in the ....

I agree with the rest of your post.

Looking at it from that point of view I can understand. There really wasn't a need to bring Kes back at all. She'd already left on a positive note so to bring her back and turn her into a villain wasn't necessary.

I think Chef's swan song takes the crown in mean spirited character assassinations

 

[stardream]

I haven't read those because I immediately got a bad feeling when I read somewhere that Voyager was going back to the Delta Quadrant.

I suppose that Kes shows up in the story as an ugly, bitter old hag.

No she doesn't. You would probably like her.

Not meaning to turn this into a promo for the books but the return to Delta Quandrant makes for a good ongoing saga. I didn't think I would care for it either but it works...at least for me.

 

[Kilana2]

Archer is a good choice for the captain. T'Pol is the failed experiment of trying to introduce a sexy . And her German voice sucks. I only watched a few ENT episodes, so I guess it's normal that I find Trip bland.

Kes had her moments and I enjoy most or the moments when I encounter her in the Litverse (at least when she appears in the older novels as she isn't present in the relaunch).

Which is one reason that I find it hard to read the relaunch books.

I prefer the season 1-3 books where the whole old gang is together. The scenario in the new books where Tuvok, Neelix and Kes are gone and replaced by characters I find rather uninteresting isn't really my thing.

Kes is mostly brilliant in the old books, especially in "The Black Shore" and "Marooned".

Uninteresting or annyoing characters is a problem I can see in the TNG relaunch. And the annoying ones get a lot of attention. None of them is as annoying as T'Pol, though. As to the uninteresting characters: there is still hope that I can get to know them better or they get better scenes....

 

[Lynx]

I haven't read those because I immediately got a bad feeling when I read somewhere that Voyager was going back to the Delta Quadrant.

I suppose that Kes shows up in the story as an ugly, bitter old hag.

No she doesn't. You would probably like her.

Not meaning to turn this into a promo for the books but the return to Delta Quandrant makes for a good ongoing saga. I didn't think I would care for it either but it works...at least for me.

Is she showing up as an ugly, benevolent old hag?

Come on, give me a hint!

You might think I'm sarcastic but the fact is that I don't trust those writers. They seem to be so bound by "canon" in this case and if I'm going to buy something, I would like to have some knowledge about what I'm buying.

 

[K'Toska]

Lynx, I gotta say your original summation of that episode's problems had me cracking up. Seriously. I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, but maybe that's because I found "Fury" more confusing than anything. I've watched the episode about three times now and still don't fully understand what is going on. Plus what the hell, Kes doesn't even seem like Kes at all in that episode. I get that she's had it rough after leaving Voyager, but adjusting for that still doesn't make sense of that episode for me!

 

[Lynx]

Lynx, I gotta say your original summation of that episode's problems had me cracking up. Seriously. I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, but maybe that's because I found "Fury" more confusing than anything. I've watched the episode about three times now and still don't fully understand what is going on. Plus what the hell, Kes doesn't even seem like Kes at all in that episode. I get that she's had it rough after leaving Voyager, but adjusting for that still doesn't make sense of that episode for me!

Well, I've always stated that the pathetic creature which did show up in that horrible excuse for a Star Trek Voyager episode isn't the real Kes but some demon from another dimension or Suspiria in disguise.

But did you really waste precious time to watch that crap three times?

 

[hux]

^Imagine it was a Seven episode. Exact same premise, everything, but Seven left with super Borg powers but then came back years later for Fury.

Wouldn't you enjoy the episode (purely as a piece of entertainment)?

I understand it tugs at the Kes heart-strings but once you remove that, it's actually quite a fun episode. In some ways you could, (and i know i'm wasting my time even suggesting this... but) you could argue that giving Lien a fun romp of an episode to finish on was a respectful thing to do (even if it damaged the Kes character).

?

 

[stardream]

I haven't read those because I immediately got a bad feeling when I read somewhere that Voyager was going back to the Delta Quadrant.

I suppose that Kes shows up in the story as an ugly, bitter old hag.

No she doesn't. You would probably like her.

Not meaning to turn this into a promo for the books but the return to Delta Quandrant makes for a good ongoing saga. I didn't think I would care for it either but it works...at least for me.

Is she showing up as an ugly, benevolent old hag?

Come on, give me a hint!

You might think I'm sarcastic but the fact is that I don't trust those writers. They seem to be so bound by "canon" in this case and if I'm going to buy something, I would like to have some knowledge about what I'm buying.

If I were a rabid Kes fan I wouldn' buy it. IIRC she is just in one chapter but she's not old nor ugly. Yes she is benevolent.

 

[Lynx]

No she doesn't. You would probably like her.

Not meaning to turn this into a promo for the books but the return to Delta Quandrant makes for a good ongoing saga. I didn't think I would care for it either but it works...at least for me.

Is she showing up as an ugly, benevolent old hag?

Come on, give me a hint!

You might think I'm sarcastic but the fact is that I don't trust those writers. They seem to be so bound by "canon" in this case and if I'm going to buy something, I would like to have some knowledge about what I'm buying.

If I were a rabid Kes fan I wouldn' buy it. IIRC she is just in one chapter but she's not old nor ugly. Yes she is benevolent.

Do they kill her off in the book?

 

[at Quark's]

^Imagine it was a Seven episode. Exact same premise, everything, but Seven left with super Borg powers but then came back years later for Fury.

Wouldn't you enjoy the episode (purely as a piece of entertainment)?

I understand it tugs at the Kes heart-strings but once you remove that, it's actually quite a fun episode. In some ways you could, (and i know i'm wasting my time even suggesting this... but) you could argue that giving Lien a fun romp of an episode to finish on was a respectful thing to do (even if it damaged the Kes character).

?

There's an important difference.

In a way, 7 is supposed to be evil.

Evil (borg) turned good (protagonist: borg trying to regain humanity), but still, she stems from an evil source. So turning back to 'evil' isn't that taxing, emotionally.

Kes was supposed to be 'good' and 'innocent' 100%. Making her evil suddenly has the same horrifying effect as using clowns in It (Stephen King): something that isn't supposed to be evil is perverted, horribly.

As a purely intellectual exercise, turning Kes 'evil' can be fun, (and for the actress playing her, too ). It isn't fun though, for those who can idenfity with Kes on some level.

 

[Lynx]

^Imagine it was a Seven episode. Exact same premise, everything, but Seven left with super Borg powers but then came back years later for Fury.

Wouldn't you enjoy the episode (purely as a piece of entertainment)?

I understand it tugs at the Kes heart-strings but once you remove that, it's actually quite a fun episode. In some ways you could, (and i know i'm wasting my time even suggesting this... but) you could argue that giving Lien a fun romp of an episode to finish on was a respectful thing to do (even if it damaged the Kes character).

?

There's an important difference.

In a way, 7 is supposed to be evil.

Evil (borg) turned good (protagonist: borg trying to regain humanity), but still, she stems from an evil source. So turning back to 'evil' isn't that taxing, emotionally.

Kes was supposed to be 'good' and 'innocent' 100%. Making her evil suddenly has the same horrifying effect as using clowns in It (Stephen King): something that isn't supposed to be evil is perverted, horribly.

As a purely intellectual exercise, turning Kes 'evil' can be fun, (and for the actress playing her, too ). It isn't fun though, for those who can idenfity with Kes on some level.

No, it's not when the only purpose is to ruin the character.

As for hux's question, I actually enjoyed "Warlord". It was fun to watch.

But the outcom in that episode was different. Kes was fighting Tieran's control over her, she became a winner in that struggle and returned to normal at the end of the episode.

I also have to agree with at Quark's when it comes to Seven. The effect hadn't been as good as the one in "Warlord".

I must admit that in my worst anti-Seven days, I toyed with the idea to make Seven a traitor who was planning to betray Voyager and try to help the Borg assimilate the crew.

But I couldn't do it. It felt wrong to ruin a character that way. Note also that I never had any plans to kill off the character either.

 

[K'Toska]

Well, I've always stated that the pathetic creature which did show up in that horrible excuse for a Star Trek Voyager episode isn't the real Kes but some demon from another dimension or Suspiria in disguise.

But did you really waste precious time to watch that crap three times?

Haha, I had to. I was convinced I just kept missing some vital part of the story that would explain the premise better. After three watches though, I'm not so sure I missed anything!

 

[stardream]

Do they kill her off in the book?

No.

 

[WoTe]

I don't get the Harry Kim hate.

He's not a super awesome character or anything, but I thought he was decent when onscreen but just written not given much to do. Still, I think it would he hilarious if he was promoted over Tom during flyboy's demotion and Harry suddenly feel that itty bit amount of power and boss him around.

But he still managed to be more interesting than Chakotay. There are times in the show, when Chakotay/Beltran sigh or eye roll and stuff like that--- and I'm really left wondering if it was the character which on some situations seemed out of place, or the actor going "Funk, I hate this show." And we're not even talking late in the game but seasons 1&2.

Harry I caught a few times in bad acting (My head hurts.... I can't...) but that's about it. Whatever Wang's offscreen troubles were, I didn't catch it in the show.

Maybe it's just the universe showing it hates Harry Kim again through you guys

 

[Lynx]

I don't hate Harry Kim either. I actually like him but I do find him the weakest character in the series.

He was a victim of bad writing. He was made as the "whipping boy" in the series, the kind of character who is young, unexperienced, mess up things and is beaten up from time to time so the viewers will feel sorry for him.

Some series have those characters. The most typical is Josh Macahan in the 70:s series "How The West Was Won" who hardly could fetch a bucket of water before getting in trouble and being beaten up. Others are Tim McGee in NCIS and Bud Roberts in JAG.

But in NCIS McGee has developed from being a "whipping boy" to a reliable and skilled agent. Harry never got that development.

However, Harry had potential but it was seldom used. he's a lot better in the season 1-3 books where he's actually doing something and is very useful. But unfortunately there's a lot of the "whipping boy" syndrome even there because he oftens end up in sickbay seriously wounded.

Still, there is more action for him in the books.

 

[Terok Nor]

It's been a while since I saw Fury but what was supposed to have happened to Kes since The Gift to make her so bitter and angry? I know she went senile in her old age but did some of her anger stem from her being alone for so many years? She must have had some interaction with other races because she had that ship.