Vote: Worst Voyager character

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I'm the one who voted Janeway. Saw no-one else had, and figured I ought to explain it. I watched a DS9 Season 2 episode called Paradise before I ever saw Voyager, and in it the main antagonist of the week was an odious woman called Alixus.

The first time I saw Voyager and encountered Janeway... same person.

 

[Terok Nor]

I'm the one who voted Janeway. Saw no-one else had, and figured I ought to explain it. I watched a DS9 Season 2 episode called Paradise before I ever saw Voyager, and in it the main antagonist of the week was an odious woman called Alixus.

The first time I saw Voyager and encountered Janeway... same person.

So true!

I still like old Kathy J though

 

[Lynx]

If I have to pick one, then it has to be Seven.

No, I don't hate the character. I have learned to accept the character and also learned that a lot of people like the character for different reasons.

But it was her installment in the series which led to the "departure" of Kes and I didn't like the catsuit, the hype of the character and how the character was marketed by those in charge.

It was the departure of Jennifer Lien that led to the installement of Seven Of Nine, not the other way around.

I have to correct you here. The decision to bring in Seven Of Nine came long before it was decided to dump Kes.

Since they couldn't afford 10 main characters, one had to go.

In fact, they were planning to dump Harry Kim first, killing him off in "Scorpion". But when a poll among the staff of "People's" magazine showed the actor Garret Wang among "the 50 most handsome", they changed their minds and dumped Kes instead.

 

[Mage]

If I have to pick one, then it has to be Seven.

No, I don't hate the character. I have learned to accept the character and also learned that a lot of people like the character for different reasons.

But it was her installment in the series which led to the "departure" of Kes and I didn't like the catsuit, the hype of the character and how the character was marketed by those in charge.

It was the departure of Jennifer Lien that led to the installement of Seven Of Nine, not the other way around.

I have to correct you here. The decision to bring in Seven Of Nine came long before it was decided to dump Kes.

Since they couldn't afford 10 main characters, one had to go.

In fact, they were planning to dump Harry Kim first, killing him off in "Scorpion". But when a poll among the staff of "People's" magazine showed the actor Garret Wang among "the 50 most handsome", they changed their minds and dumped Kes instead.

Jennifer Lien wanted to leave herself. Yes, there was talk about MAYBE letting a character go. But Lien herself decided to leave. So that worked out.

Jennifer has gone on record saying that the world of tv and movies just wasn't her thing, and stopped acting all together a few years later.

 

[Lynx]

^^
During all these years I haven't seen anything which proves that Jennifer Lien wanted to leave Star Trek Voyager.

When she was asked at a convention some years ago if she was fired from Voyager, her reply was: "Yes!"

Those in charge of the show tried to play that card from the beginning. With more and more comments coming up that she wasn't leaving of her own free will, they changed the whole story to "we couldn't write for the character" which was another fairy tale.

The truth is, as I stated before that the wanted to boost the ratings with a "sexy babe". Garret Wang was about to be fired and Kim killed off but when that silly poll showed him among the "50 most handsome" they fired Lien instead.

 

[at Quark's]

What I was wondering about: if Lien was fired, and it really did happen in such a nasty way, then why was she willing to reprise her role for Fury? -which isn't even a good episode for the Kes character, just a character assasination. Or did she just need the money badly ?

 

[hux]

You can be fired on good terms (I believe it's called "being let go") so her reprise in Fury doesn't mean anything as far as that is concerned. It does, however, suggest that the claim that she was pushed out in a horrible fashion which destroyed her world and lead to her life turning to shit, is utter nonsense.

 

[Lynx]

What I was wondering about: if Lien was fired, and it really did happen in such a nasty way, then why was she willing to reprise her role for Fury? -which isn't even a good episode for the Kes character, just a character assasination. Or did she just need the money badly ?

I don't know, maybe it was a money thing.

However, taking part in that horrible execution of her own character was tasteless, made her lose a bunch of fans and also lose some gold stars in my ratings list too.

She did at least persuade those in charge to change the end of the story and not kill of Kes which the benevolent, caring Masters Of The Star Trek Universe had planned to do to give the Kes fans the big "finger".

Otherwise they might have hired some lookalike for the episode and killed off the character. It wouldn't have surprised me at all.

Not to mention that her recent problems could have started when she was fired, who knows.

 

[JoeZhang]

Neelix, always Neelix - my view on this never changes.


He might have fooled the crew of voyager but wouldn't last long with those working class miners - he would having been swinging off a lamppost before voyager hit warp one.

 

[Terok Nor]

Am I the only one who thought "Fury" was a great episode?

When Kes left we were under the impression she'd ascended to another plane of existence and was probably going to use her new powers to be a benevolent force. To bring her back as this senile, vengeful, angry destructive being was the last thing anyone expected. I can understand Kes uber fans being annoyed but I thought it was an inspired choice for the episode. This was a former main character returning to kill the crew! Plus it had the Vidiians and time travel. What's not to love? The ending was kind of heartbreaking given we'd spent 3 years with Kes and this is how her story ended but I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Lynx]

Am I the only one who thought "Fury" was a great episode?

When Kes left we were under the impression she'd ascended to another plane of existence and was probably going to use her new powers to be a benevolent force. To bring her back as this senile, vengeful, angry destructive being was the last thing anyone expected. I can understand Kes uber fans being annoyed but I thought it was an inspired choice for the episode. This was a former main character returning to kill the crew! Plus it had the Vidiians and time travel. What's not to love? The ending was kind of heartbreaking given we'd spent 3 years with Kes and this is how her story ended but I don't have a problem with that.

Great episode?

It was the worst piece of s**t I've ever watched.

It was a downrigt insult, it was Braga, Fuller and Michael Taylor p***ing in the faces of the Kes fans, it was a great character being destroyed just for the pleasure of those writers when they could show the "finger" to a group of fans who have committed the atrocity to wanting the character back.

You, as a fan of other series have no problem with that bad excuse for a Star Trek episode but I, as a fan of the executed character have a problem with it.

I can't even read a new Voyager book anymore because Kes isn't in them and if she is, the book will be full of that crap from that s**t episode, making it unreadable for me.

I will never forgive Braga, Fuller and M. Taylor for this insult and I have no problem telling everyone where they can stuff their script for that episode and where they can go.

And as a matter of fact, every time one of their current projects fail, I'll open a bottle of the most exquistive and expensive whiskey I have and raise a toast!

 

[stardream]

Am I the only one who thought "Fury" was a great episode?

When Kes left we were under the impression she'd ascended to another plane of existence and was probably going to use her new powers to be a benevolent force. To bring her back as this senile, vengeful, angry destructive being was the last thing anyone expected. I can understand Kes uber fans being annoyed but I thought it was an inspired choice for the episode. This was a former main character returning to kill the crew! Plus it had the Vidiians and time travel. What's not to love? The ending was kind of heartbreaking given we'd spent 3 years with Kes and this is how her story ended but I don't have a problem with that.

Great episode?

It was the worst piece of s**t I've ever watched.

It was a downrigt insult, it was Braga, Fuller and Michael Taylor p***ing in the faces of the Kes fans, it was a great character being destroyed just for the pleasure of those writers when they could show the "finger" to a group of fans who have committed the atrocity to wanting the character back.

You, as a fan of other series have no problem with that bad excuse for a Star Trek episode but I, as a fan of the executed character have a problem with it.

I can't even read a new Voyager book anymore because Kes isn't in them and if she is, the book will be full of that crap from that s**t episode, making it unreadable for me.

I will never forgive Braga, Fuller and M. Taylor for this insult and I have no problem telling everyone where they can stuff their script for that episode and where they can go.

And as a matter of fact, every time one of their current projects fail, I'll open a bottle of the most exquistive and expensive whiskey I have and raise a toast!

While I never formed any kind of particular attachment to the character of Kes I did like her.

If anything Fury was one of those episodes that just confused the hell out of me. It didn't make sense. Why couldn't she come back as her 'ascended self?" Why did they have to bring her back as this miserable old crone (and why did she kill B'elanna? What was the point of that?). Every time I watch it I find myself going "Why?" at everything that happens.

Its just...a crazy episode as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Terok Nor]

I liked Kes and found her interesting but since she'd left the main cast and was definitely never going to return again I have zero problems with her swan song. Voyager was known for playing it safe. For once they took a risk and turned a main cast member into a villain and took her so far there was no going back. Everything was fixed with a reset button apart from Kes herself.

 

[Lynx]

I liked Kes and found her interesting but since she'd left the main cast and was definitely never going to return again I have zero problems with her swan song. Voyager was known for playing it safe. For once they took a risk and turned a main cast member into a villain and took her so far there was no going back. Everything was fixed with a reset button apart from Kes herself.

The problem with the episode is highlighted in your quote.

It was an insane, insulting episode made by insane, mean people.

It should never have been made.

There was a campaign going for having Kes back as a main character some years after she was kicked out.

Those in charge had two options:

1. Bring the character back in a decent way, like the fans wanted.
2. Ignore the wish of the fans.

They did chose the third option, to insult the fans by humiliating and destroying the character.

Those bastards!

 

[WoTe]

I think parts of Fury could have worked if Kes came back as a Borg Drone picked off by the Borg after Gift by the Queen just for this assignment. After her defeat, Kes would be nearing her death (the Borg experience aged her) surrounded by her Voyager family. She plants some arcane piece of knowledge stolen from the Borg Queen as a final present, perhaps in 7 or Naomie Wildman.

I cast my vote for Neelix. Tuvix is what Neelix should have been minus Tuvok's job. Subtract any romantic Kes connection and that character would have been a winner. Someone smart, savvy but alone in the D-quadrant who sees what an opportunity Voyager would have been and would have had real knowledge of the area at large. At the same time, he would have an agenda for self-advancement because Delta Quad aliens aren't Federation level enlightened and that causes clashes. But we got family friendly Jar-Jar.

But if I had a second vote, it woud be B'elanna Torres. Idk if her Klingon side got the unfortunate job of babysitting the world's whiniest, angstiest and weakest human but it often felt that way. She always seemed on the verge of crying so often. They should have copied (or taken) K'Eleyr from TNG - maybe her younger sister or something. Someone tougher than the average Jane but completely irreverent about Klingon stuff. It would have served a nice counterpoint to everyone on Trek taking their specie's stereotypes so friggin seriously.

 

[Lynx]

I think parts of Fury could have worked if Kes came back as a Borg Drone picked off by the Borg after Gift by the Queen just for this assignment. After her defeat, Kes would be nearing her death (the Borg experience aged her) surrounded by her Voyager family. She plants some arcane piece of knowledge stolen from the Borg Queen as a final present, perhaps in 7 or Naomie Wildman.

I cast my vote for Neelix. Tuvix is what Neelix should have been minus Tuvok's job. Subtract any romantic Kes connection and that character would have been a winner. Someone smart, savvy but alone in the D-quadrant who sees what an opportunity Voyager would have been and would have had real knowledge of the area at large. At the same time, he would have an agenda for self-advancement because Delta Quad aliens aren't Federation level enlightened and that causes clashes. But we got family friendly Jar-Jar.

But if I had a second vote, it woud be B'elanna Torres. Idk if her Klingon side got the unfortunate job of babysitting the world's whiniest, angstiest and weakest human but it often felt that way. She always seemed on the verge of crying so often. They should have copied (or taken) K'Eleyr from TNG - maybe her younger sister or something. Someone tougher than the average Jane but completely irreverent about Klingon stuff. It would have served a nice counterpoint to everyone on Trek taking their specie's stereotypes so friggin seriously.

Sorry, but the suggetion for Kes would have been no better than the crap those in charge came up with.

Is there no option in which she survives and become her old self?

 

[hux]

I think Fury would have been better if Kes had turned up, instantly apologised for boring the shit out of everyone for so many years then phasered herself in the face (set to kill) and as the flakes of remaining skin and dust floated down to the ground, they spelt out the word "bye."

 

[Terok Nor]

I liked Kes and found her interesting but since she'd left the main cast and was definitely never going to return again I have zero problems with her swan song. Voyager was known for playing it safe. For once they took a risk and turned a main cast member into a villain and took her so far there was no going back. Everything was fixed with a reset button apart from Kes herself.

The problem with the episode is highlighted in your quote.

It was an insane, insulting episode made by insane, mean people.

It should never have been made.

There was a campaign going for having Kes back as a main character some years after she was kicked out.

Those in charge had two options:

1. Bring the character back in a decent way, like the fans wanted.
2. Ignore the wish of the fans.

They did chose the third option, to insult the fans by humiliating and destroying the character.

Those bastards!

I didn't find it insane or insulting. I thought it was a great twist to what could have been a sappy reunion episode. Kes was not ruined in my opinion. There's no rule stating fan favourites are untouchable. If there was James T. Kirk and Jadzia Dax would still be alive. No one wanted them dead but it was still done.

 

[at Quark's]

Am I the only one who thought "Fury" was a great episode?

When Kes left we were under the impression she'd ascended to another plane of existence and was probably going to use her new powers to be a benevolent force. To bring her back as this senile, vengeful, angry destructive being was the last thing anyone expected. I can understand Kes uber fans being annoyed but I thought it was an inspired choice for the episode. This was a former main character returning to kill the crew! Plus it had the Vidiians and time travel. What's not to love? The ending was kind of heartbreaking given we'd spent 3 years with Kes and this is how her story ended but I don't have a problem with that.

I tend to agree with what Jim Wright wrote about this episode. Which was something along the lines that when one has no attachment to Kes and views the episode dispassionately, it isn't even a terrible episode in itself, but that for a Kes-lover like hemself this episode was disgusting.

Also, I found the 'resolution' unconvincing: she's intent on killing everyone in the past, sees the vid of her own younger self and suddenly sees the light again. "I was going to kill everyone, but now ... no hard feelings guys, right ?" WTF ???

 

[Lynx]

I think Fury would have been better if Kes had turned up, instantly apologised for boring the shit out of everyone for so many years then phasered herself in the face (set to kill) and as the flakes of remaining skin and dust floated down to the ground, they spelt out the word "bye."

A really nice and constructive suggestion.

I really wish that someone would apologize for posting a lot of semi-pornographic, meaningless crap which has bored the s**t out of me for a very long time.