VAN: What Judgments Come by Ward & Dilmore Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Ronald Held]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Half way through and still interesting. Section 31 had nothing to do with the botched attempt to free Reyes?

 

[SolidusRaccoon]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Compared to the other Vanguard books it felt flat. I dearly loved the others and maybe I went into this one with me expectations set too high. The subplots involving the Defiant and Nimbus III were just filler. We all know how those plots end, and it was not worth taking away from the main story to tell them.

Ganz got the short end of the stick, before I felt a real threat from him, now he was just laughable. It was like he was made a cliche villain from a Saturday morning cartoon. I felt bad for him, and his death was almost a mercy killing.

Pennington and Quin shined though, that I will admit.

Despite my criticisms it was still better than most Trek fiction being released now. I hold the Vangaurd series in very high esteem and hope the final book gives it a proper send off.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

That's true but in this one everyone seems to be in on it. Zeke Fischer, who I can see doing something sneaky & underhanded to get Diego off the ship, furthers the espionage by passing along some tech that not only will require Reyes to stay on the ship longer but will put him in even more danger than he's already in. It struck me as out of character.

Now, T'Prynn I can see having no problems with something like this at all. She's not exactly the poster child for ethical behavior. And Nogura, after being shocked! Shocked I say! by the initial attempt just slides right into phase two. Rather than being outraged about an operation that led to the deaths of two of his crew I got the feeling that he felt cheated that he didn't get to be the one that sent them to be killed.

It's a minor part of the story but it just seems like some people are acting out of character just to service the plot, Fischer in particular.

There are elements of Starfleet that do things that just aren't right but there should also be consequences. We know, thanks to TMP, that Nogura just keeps climbing the ladder. Of course, with the well known writer of the last book, he may be the only one to make it our alive...

Well, T'Prynn has to survive too, since we already know she dies in 2349, 7X years after Vanguard.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.

 

[SolidusRaccoon]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.

And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

^D'oh! Forgot that part.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

FYI Dayton is running a Q&A post about the book on his blog at the moment.

 

[DrBashir]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.

And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"

Which is set in 2270 if I recall, just a couple of years in the future. No telling where the final Vanguard novel will end. They could both be deaders by the end of it.

Who we know will survive: T'Prynn, Terrell, Nogura, Carol & David Marcus. Anyone else on or connected with the station, not reassigned as we know M'Benga was?

 

[BrotherBenny]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.

And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"

Which is set in 2270 if I recall, just a couple of years in the future. No telling where the final Vanguard novel will end. They could both be deaders by the end of it.

Who we know will survive: T'Prynn, Terrell, Nogura, Carol & David Marcus. Anyone else on or connected with the station, not reassigned as we know M'Benga was?

Pennington says that he was there until the end, which is BEFORE he visits Reyes, so we know they survive.

 

[TerilynnS]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I must disagree. It is very possible that while "the end" as Pennington so tiredly stated it may indeed be the end - do not discount the very real possibility it won't be the "real" end. Mack has a knack for finding brilliant ways to kill characters off. It's possible that the story - which starts in "real time" in WJC can merely just pick up again - leaving Pennington and Reyes to face some unforeseen drama - leaving them both dead. Pennington did a LOT of homework to FIND Reyes - it's possible his own investigation drudged up people who are also looking to find Reyes - and silence him permanently...

 

[BrotherBenny]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I must disagree. It is very possible that while "the end" as Pennington so tiredly stated it may indeed be the end - do not discount the very real possibility it won't be the "real" end. Mack has a knack for finding brilliant ways to kill characters off. It's possible that the story - which starts in "real time" in WJC can merely just pick up again - leaving Pennington and Reyes to face some unforeseen drama - leaving them both dead. Pennington did a LOT of homework to FIND Reyes - it's possible his own investigation drudged up people who are also looking to find Reyes - and silence him permanently...

It's a framing story so it has to take place outside the story itself. We are meant to believe that Operation Vanguard is over by the time Pennington tracks down Reyes and asks Reyes about his final time on/near SB47. Then we have the lead-in to Storming Heaven in which Pennington tells Reyes what happens after Reyes leaves:

'I was there until the end, mate. The bloody, bitter, end.' or words to that effect.

So Pennington is telling that us that he was there when it finally came to end. I don't think there's anything ambiguous in that statement.

 

[TerilynnS]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)



Well I guess we'll have to wait until April (?) to see what Mack drums up for us! I've been given the sense of false security with these writers before. I'm not letting my guard down until the end of Storming Heaven.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Well I guess we'll have to wait until April (?)

While the official release month is April, the "release date" (and the date for the eBooks) is March 27th, so the MMPB should be out sometime mid-March.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Well I guess we'll have to wait until April (?) to see what Mack drums up for us! I've been given the sense of false security with these writers before. I'm not letting my guard down until the end of Storming Heaven.

I'll second this. Though we know Pennington and Reyes survive to the conversation in discussion, for all we know, that conversation doesn't end the Vangaurd story. More might take place after that point. The Vanguard guys have woven a complex tale; who knows where they will continue taking us.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Compared to the other Vanguard books it felt flat. I dearly loved the others and maybe I went into this one with me expectations set too high. The subplots involving the Defiant and Nimbus III were just filler. We all know how those plots end, and it was not worth taking away from the main story to tell them.

Ganz got the short end of the stick, before I felt a real threat from him, now he was just laughable. It was like he was made a cliche villain from a Saturday morning cartoon. I felt bad for him, and his death was almost a mercy killing.

QUOTE]

I agree with these 2 statements. The Defiant and Nimbus parts gave back story but weren't interesting to me. i like Jetanien but skimmed through those parts as they were irrelevant to the tale.

Ganz was also far different from how he began. But he also was no longer in control of his situation without Zett and having to deal with Nogura. However, I expected him to have more regard for Reyes based on earlier books. Obviously Neela was the brains of the opperation but I still expected Ganz to be a bit more in control of himself.

 

[DrBashir]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Very much in agreement, particularly about Ganz. In the first few books he came across as a dangerous, intelligent character of his own. After the revelation of who was really in charge he started being portrayed more and more as impulsive and cartoonish. It was a disappointment.

Almost as big a disappointment is the tratment of Quinn. He became this action hero just long enough to get rid of Zett and have an adventure and then he's right back where he started. Even lower than that since he doesn't even have a ship at this point. It was a very big swing one way and then even further back and it just doesn't feel right. If he swings back the other was in the final novel it's going to feel even stranger. he was a great character and I'm disappointed in how he's turned out these past couple of books.

Penningtons comment about "the bloody end" may just refer to the station itself. Such a shame that a series with so much potential is being ended.

 

[CaptainSarine]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Just finished this a couple of days ago. I enjoyed it, though not as much as the earlier installments. I agree with what has been said here so far about the Nimbus III and Defiant plotlines - although it was interesting to see how the Planet of Galactic Peace began and ended in flames, it could have tightened up the story to jettison them.

However, I disagree about the treatment of Quinn. I think they're setting him up for a rebound in the next book, giving him a character arc that makes sense from the personality and character that we know. I look forward to seeing what they do with him in the next book.

Argh, March 2012?!!! Hurry up!

 

[Bob Karo]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Personally, I loved the story thread with the Defiant. I especially love that they took the broad strokes of the SCE story involving its recovery. I always loved that story.

I agree that the Nimbus III parts fell flat. But, it was nice to see a reason all three parties would continue sending diplomats that was better than, "it's there."

Over all, I liked it. The end of Ganz's story was good. I also agree that Quinn was portrayed very in character and will hopefully rise above it in the end.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I don't think Quinn is being set up for a happy ending. He is a tragic Don Quixote character and I have no doubt will come to a tragic end. I was shocked that Declassified took away everything Quinn got in Precipice. His new ship and lover gone. The apostate's death seemed to be for nothing. "Quinn must suffer." And at this point, I think Quinn would view death as merciful. But we can hope.

 

[ToddCam]

Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Finished it yesterday.

It was ok. I liked parts of it.

Quinn was completely worthless in this book. He disgusts me. Good way to celebrate Bridy Mac's life by throwing away everything she stood for. Pathetic.

Ganz is gone. The thing is, I never really felt he was very developed. Faceless and offhand for most of the series, then more of a generic angry mobster (which I guess he always was). Oh well.

I read this back to back with Declassified. I guess that one was the one to do it first, but I found the additional "origin" to the Tkon to be blah. I know there's no rule about being adherent to past books, but the Q Continuum trilogy already explained what happened to the Tkon, and so I was less than interested in the new twist.

I am sad for the destruction of Lovell as well. I thought it was in Foundations III, but it may have just been al-Khaled. I hope it's not the last we see of that crew. So much of the film era is unexplored! (Why is everyone so obsessed with that garbage five-year-mission anyway?)

I found it very conspicuous that Pennington did not reference Amity Price when he was thinking of Ganz "disappearing" people. Especially since that story was written by Ward.

Nimbus III stuff was kind of boring.

Nitpicks over.

I am excited for the end of the series. I think a problem with the series is that some of its cast never really reached depth for me. I got a real sense of Reyes, Fisher, T'Prynn, Pennington, Quinn, and to a lesser extent Desai, but Ganz, Jetanien, Xiong, and Lurqal/Sandesjo were very nebulous or one-note to me. I was especially interested in the exploration of Orions and Chelons, and very little of that (especially the latter) was realized. However, many of the supporting characters shined, like Khatami and the Sagittarius crew.