USS Reliant - was it a big deal in 1982?

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Rewinding back to 1982: We only had TOS, TAS, TMP, and now... Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. We'd seen other Constitution-class ships in TOS, but was this movie the first time we saw a Starfleet ship that was another class? Dialogue and light blobs don't count.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It was Kewl-Factor 10 seeing another SF ship, even if it was a kind of Franz Joseph type reuse of existing parts.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

It was Kewl-Factor 10 seeing another SF ship, even if it was a kind of Franz Joseph type reuse of existing parts.

I actually loved that it used the same designs as Kirk's ship, but more compact, and I loved that they used the same sets, but cheated with camera angles and whatever else they did. It made the two ships feel very much like two ship designs in the same Starfleet in the same time period.

 

[FredH]

It was Kewl-Factor 10 seeing another SF ship, even if it was a kind of Franz Joseph type reuse of existing parts.

I don’t know about fandom-wide, but I certainly knew other teenage Trek fans who liked the Reliant’s look very much.

 

[CoveSanta]

I actually loved that it used the same designs as Kirk's ship, but more compact, and I loved that they used the same sets, but cheated with camera angles and whatever else they did. It made the two ships feel very much like two ship designs in the same Starfleet in the same time period.

I agree. In TOS, due to budgetary constraints, pretty much any other Starfleet ship we saw was a Constitution class, and if they went on board, it was using Enterprise sets. Some may not like that, but I think it's logical that Starfleet would have consistency to their ship designs. Even though the Reliant looked similar to the Enterprise and utilized the same sets, just redressed, I thought it made perfect sense and worked very well.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I don’t know about fandom-wide, but I certainly knew other teenage Trek fans who liked the Reliant’s look very much.

It was a long time ago, and all we had were original TOS fans, and us younger TOS fans that watched the reruns. It wasn't the same fandom we have now for sure.

And of course all we had for spoilers was Starlog magazine

 

[FredH]

It was a long time ago, and all we had were original TOS fans, and us younger TOS fans that watched the reruns. It wasn't the same fandom we have now for sure.

And of course all we had for spoilers was Starlog magazine

Sure. Trek fandom was smaller, and arguably more focused, because what we now call TOS simply was Star Trek. I think people forget now, but a big focus of Trek fandom in the 1970s was to Bring The Show Back — not to create new series set in the same universe, the way it works now, but to bring new seasons of the actual original series about Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise (or a direct sequel starring them) back to television. It wasn’t until 1987 and the advent of TNG that that changed, and of course there were plenty of “TNG isn’t real Trek!” reactions, just like every subsequent series up through today.

(Regarding the Reliant, I imagine a certain chunk of fandom also liked the apparent visual confirmation of the Tech Manual assumption of different starship classes using mixups of much the same components in different configurations. There’d been plenty of “blueprint fandom” stuff like that by then, but TWOK was the first time we actually saw it onscreen directly, and not via either a quick shot of a schematic or a verbal reference.)

 

[drt]

I think people forget now, but a big focus of Trek fandom in the 1970s was to Bring The Show Back — not to create new series set in the same universe, the way it works now, but to bring new seasons of the actual original series about Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise (or a direct sequel starring them) back to television. It wasn’t until 1987 and the advent of TNG that that changed, and of course there were plenty of “TNG isn’t real Trek!” reactions, just like every subsequent series up through today.

It's interesting to consider if the TOS movies had ended prior to the next Trek TV production, if they would have still done a "next generation" or instead rebooted the original concept with a younger cast.

 

[Dukhat]

Fun fact about TWOK (that I learned from former member Maurice): The producers initially didn't want to spend money building an all-new model for the Reliant, so they wanted to find out if the unfinished Phase II Enterprise model could be adapted into the ship. But this proved impractical, so they then decided to have the TMP Enterprise relabeled as the Reliant (and possibly painted yellow to distinguish it from the shots of the Enterprise.) But then it was deemed too confusing to have two identical-looking ships battling each other, so they finally capitulated and had a new model built.

 

[Toasted Quarterback]

Smaller ship, smaller cast, good actor in a thankless ''Captain'' role.

 

[publiusr]

Fun fact about TWOK (that I learned from former member Maurice): The producers initially didn't want to spend money building an all-new model for the Reliant, so they wanted to find out if the unfinished Phase II Enterprise model could be adapted into the ship. But this proved impractical, so they then decided to have the TMP Enterprise relabeled as the Reliant (and possibly painted yellow to distinguish it from the shots of the Enterprise.) But then it was deemed too confusing to have two identical-looking ships battling each other, so they finally capitulated and had a new model built.

I always wondered what they would have built if told to design a larger battleship—we are so used to Neil Rhodes Excelsior..—-what could have been.

 

[Admiral Qu'Irk]

Fun fact about TWOK (that I learned from former member Maurice): The producers initially didn't want to spend money building an all-new model for the Reliant, so they wanted to find out if the unfinished Phase II Enterprise model could be adapted into the ship. But this proved impractical, so they then decided to have the TMP Enterprise relabeled as the Reliant (and possibly painted yellow to distinguish it from the shots of the Enterprise.) But then it was deemed too confusing to have two identical-looking ships battling each other, so they finally capitulated and had a new model built.

Cool info, did not know that about the Phase II model - thanks!

There is a genuine concern about distinguishability, and - even better - the Reliant added more universe-building that was far more important long-term.

TOS did show multiple Enterprise-style ships on screen, because that's all they could have done, but it was done in a way that - in tandem with the script - wouldn't get audiences confused. Especially 'The Ultimate Computer" with four of the same model on screen simultaneously. But the script helped, too. The Big Screen is definitely a bigger playground and it could be easy for audiences to lose sight, especially when reaching down to get a big grab of popcorn or whatever, and the battles shown on screen were pretty epic and from no distinctive vantage point (unlike the TV episodes, arguably.)

 

[Admiral Qu'Irk]

It's interesting to consider if the TOS movies had ended prior to the next Trek TV production, if they would have still done a "next generation"

Good question. I recall reading that a revival show was already being contemplated even before ST IV, but the popularity of IV clinched TNG's commissioning. (The movie franchise did see slightly less returns for each installment, so someone would have put up the idea of a new and potentially more lucrative TV series at some point.)

IMHO, they did the right thing with a sequel and set it ~80 years in the future. It left breathing room between the OG and the new crew that didn't need to be explored, save for the fans who like the pencil in how things might have occurred for how the Klingons became allies, etc. IMHO, Gene was right in trying to get away from the old show baddies as well so TNG would not be seen as needing TOS, despite - at least for season 1 - keeping to a lot of TOS's design and plotting aesthetics (e.g. captains log recaps, etc.) Then again, the Ferengi were pretty bad, nobody by 1987 would buy into a giant space amoeba threatening the galaxy at much-slower-than-light speed velocity, etc.

or instead rebooted the original concept with a younger cast.

Younger? So McCoy and Scotty would now be 30, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu now 15 or so, and Kirk would be... 10?! (Well, kids always loved the show despite all them people being of all age groups and McCoy wasn't put into 20 pounds of make-up to try to look 30 again...)

 

[drt]

Younger? So McCoy and Scotty would now be 30, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu now 15 or so, and Kirk would be... 10?! (Well, kids always loved the show despite all them people being of all age groups and McCoy wasn't put into 20 pounds of make-up to try to look 30 again...)

Sorry, I just meant recast it with a 35 year old actor playing Kirk, etc.

Doing TNG as they did really opened up the setting as the franchise, instead of endlessly focusing on the adventures of Kirk's crew.

 

[E-DUB]

Very much so. In those pre-internet days fandom was a totally different scene. The Reliant was, after all, the first Non-Connie Starfleet ship we'd ever seen.

 

[Scrooge McTall]

Yes. Big deal. And thankfully a very well received ship.

 

[CoveSanta]

Good question. I recall reading that a revival show was already being contemplated even before ST IV, but the popularity of IV clinched TNG's commissioning. (The movie franchise did see slightly less returns for each installment, so someone would have put up the idea of a new and potentially more lucrative TV series at some point.)

The law of less returns was kind of wobbly for the classic Trek films, as I recall. In terms of raw numbers, I believe TVH long held the record for most profitable Trek film of all time. I don't think it was dethroned until the Ambramsverse films came out, in fact. Now I believe if adjusted for inflation, TMP would hold the record for most successful of the original 10 films. But even then, TVH was definitely more profitable than, say, TSFS. And then TUC was clearly more profitable than TFF. So Trek was kind of all over the place.

 

[Admiral Qu'Irk]

The law of less returns was kind of wobbly for the classic Trek films, as I recall. In terms of raw numbers, I believe TVH long held the record for most profitable Trek film of all time. I don't think it was dethroned until the Ambramsverse films came out, in fact. Now I believe if adjusted for inflation, TMP would hold the record for most successful of the original 10 films. But even then, TVH was definitely more profitable than, say, TSFS. And then TUC was clearly more profitable than TFF. So Trek was kind of all over the place.

Agreed. III did continue a slight downward trend, but everything official (interviews, etc) was that the makers wanted to switch to a lighthearted tone after II and II being so serious. A fair assertion for sure as both could be heavy, II more so. Like or dislike or anything in between, IV was lightning in a bottle, with later attempts to replicate it flopping more than that jumping salmon or striped mullet fish that miscalculated and landed on a dock until re-reaching the water again. Now imagine if the USS Grissom was the same ship design as Enterprise... And even more fun, imagine Excelsior looking like Enterprise as well. In all honesty, it really would look cheap to reuse the same exterior - especially as nothing can be redressed to make it "within a template yet uniquely identifiable". The bridge set is an easy change (see Reliant) and, noting Excelsior's limited bridge set that looks more like a long line than anything oblong, with tacky green-glowing chairs. Hope that's not radium-226 or, worse, kryptonite as you know Kal-El could have a long enough lifespan then sign up into the Federation out of abject boredom, how's that for a crossover?

TTF was definitely breaking the mold in a bigger way - An audience member in 1989, I don't think many if any (I hadn't, for decades) had paralleled the tone of the film to the 60s show, because we were all expecting more of the 80s tone. That did it in the most, along with the misguided over-the-top comedy. Pare down as much overdone comedy and throw in the deleted scenes, the movie could be salvageable. It still does capture the human condition despite the foibles.

It's always great when the trend gets bucked more than the horses in that movie "Blazing Saddles", or at least thew cowboys eating beans next to them. TUC, while still having some of the ha-ha huff, did return to basics, managing to create an adversary worthy of Khan but without needing a previous TV episode in which to directly create General Chang out of - by taking undercurrents of the Klingon elements of III and IV and creating Chang from that. It was a refreshing rewatch when I saw it the other day. Some dialogue at the start is a bit clunky, but as the movie gets on it only gets stronger - and also melds the tone of the TV show with the 80s films as it was to be a swansong. (Didn't know that was Nimoy's actual art piece either, and Kim Cattrall not being available for the original Saavik, plus her research that led to "Valeris", right down to hairdo, was pretty cool. Also note that Excelsior ditched the half-baked bridge design and did a partial redress of Enterprise's but to much better effect...

 

[Admiral Qu'Irk]

Sorry, I just meant recast it with a 35 year old actor playing Kirk, etc.

No worries, I couldn't resist. Many reboots seem to take characters where people were clearly older and replace them with younger because pretty.

Doing TNG as they did really opened up the setting as the franchise, instead of endlessly focusing on the adventures of Kirk's crew.

Big-time. The Federation and timeline had much room for exploration, along with the rest of the universe. The 80s flicks hinted at a bigger universe, TNG got to further that even more.