Maybe he should quit, then. I hear the Orions are hiring.
USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?
- Thread starter EJD1984
- Start date
Then the Enterprise would need a replacement ship’s surgeon as Pike’s Orion enterprise would need a bartender and Dr Boyce, who also knows that engineers love to change things, weary of the constant refits they keep doing to his ship, insists on joining Pike in his new life as a... slave girl dance organiser or something (seriously what was his job in that fantasy?)
Fulltime bartender.
From what I understand from oxforddictionaries.com one of the definitions for canon is "A collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine", coming from biblical canon. This raises the question of who should be able to determine what's "genuine" (genuine within the world of Star Trek of course, not within our world) and who actually needs to know what's genuine. While fans (including me) love to know what's genuine the only people who actually really need to know what's genuine are the authors of tie-ins and to a lesser degree those of all future productions. Which in my opinion makes it clear that the ones who can determine what's genuine or not are those who employ the people who need to know what's genuine or not; CBS. I'm not sure if this holds any water, if anyone else has something to contribute to why CBS can determine canon it's appreciated
Now, assuming you accept my ramblings about canon, we have concluded that the only genuine sacred books, er, canon information comes from TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VGR, ENT, DSC and all the movies is canon at this point of linear time. This also means that any expression of authorial intent that is not directly present within these works is not canon and therefore not genuine.
Well, I'm fairly new to the Trek fandom so I don't have your entire experience but from the few years I've spent on this forum I've seen the "new timeline" sort of claim quite often.
I propose that claiming errors to be indicative of a different timeline is the exact same thing as contorting oneselve into knots trying to show that it was in fact not contradictory. It is just a very specific expression of explaining an error, that has the advantage of not requiring that many knots but also the disadvantage of sometimes disrupting a larger narrative flow. Hence why I prefer to contort myself into knots, plus I find it more fun. To be clear, I am still of the opinion that DSC is prime, I stand by what I said, every bit of it; except the parts where I said that it was the exclusive option.
I don't believe that there's any question about that.
I have been doing a lot of reading about the timeline question, the Enterprise, etc.
Here are some quotes from Alex Kurtzman, and they are particularly telling:
"Obviously [Discovery] looks more modern than The Original Series, because we are in a modern world now and if we made the show look that way people would not feel that it was worth the money. That being said, every prop and costume design is filtered through what existed at the time. And do we create the new version of it or do we augment the original design in very subtle ways or do we just leave it alone? And when I say every prop and design choice I mean every prop and design choice. So, I think you will see a lot of tips of the hat to devices to The Original Series and the timeline. But, obviously we wanted to create a more modern experience and that necessitated certain adjustments."
Enterprise will play a part in season two and it will help solve Discovery's "synchronicity with canon".
"The promise of the Enterprise holds the answers to a lot of those questions, including Spock's relationship with his half-sister who he's never mentioned. Which does not necessarily mean you're going to see Spock, just that we owe an answer to that question."
Those quotes make it quite clear that their vision has it that the Discoprise is prime timeline and is canon and that they are basically going to ignore the exact TOS look because they do not feel that it fits with 2018 aesthetics.
So....the look of the TOS Enterprise is so obviously 'dated' that we must alter it from what it was to make modern viewers happier.
That's doing a '1984' Winston Smith-ish revisionist-history take on TOS just because people want everything to fit into the look of today.
That's rather sad, in my opinion.
It's one thing to do something from the motivation of creativity; it's another when the prime motivation is the idea that if you don't do something a certain way, audiences won't approve.
The concern for making money makes imagination and creativity a slave to those who want their current 'future-fiction' to be closely tied to what they see around them every day in the here-and-now.
Here are some quotes from Alex Kurtzman, and they are particularly telling:
"Obviously [Discovery] looks more modern than The Original Series, because we are in a modern world now and if we made the show look that way people would not feel that it was worth the money. That being said, every prop and costume design is filtered through what existed at the time. And do we create the new version of it or do we augment the original design in very subtle ways or do we just leave it alone? And when I say every prop and design choice I mean every prop and design choice. So, I think you will see a lot of tips of the hat to devices to The Original Series and the timeline. But, obviously we wanted to create a more modern experience and that necessitated certain adjustments."
Enterprise will play a part in season two and it will help solve Discovery's "synchronicity with canon".
"The promise of the Enterprise holds the answers to a lot of those questions, including Spock's relationship with his half-sister who he's never mentioned. Which does not necessarily mean you're going to see Spock, just that we owe an answer to that question."
Those quotes make it quite clear that their vision has it that the Discoprise is prime timeline and is canon and that they are basically going to ignore the exact TOS look because they do not feel that it fits with 2018 aesthetics.
So....the look of the TOS Enterprise is so obviously 'dated' that we must alter it from what it was to make modern viewers happier.
That's doing a '1984' Winston Smith-ish revisionist-history take on TOS just because people want everything to fit into the look of today.
That's rather sad, in my opinion.
It's one thing to do something from the motivation of creativity; it's another when the prime motivation is the idea that if you don't do something a certain way, audiences won't approve.
The concern for making money makes imagination and creativity a slave to those who want their current 'future-fiction' to be closely tied to what they see around them every day in the here-and-now.
Star Trek is a commercial venture, paid for by people who expect a return on investment. It always has been. The people they hire are hired for their creative input. The two are not mutually exclusive and work together.So....the look of the TOS Enterprise is so obviously 'dated' that we must alter it from what it was to make modern viewers happier.
That's doing a '1984' Winston Smith-ish revisionist-history take on TOS just because people want everything to fit into the look of today.
That's rather sad, in my opinion.
It's one thing to do something from the motivation of creativity; it's another when the prime motivation is the idea that if you don't do something a certain way, audiences won't approve.
The concern for making money makes imagination and creativity a slave to those who want their current 'future-fiction' to be closely tied to what they see around them every day in the here-and-now.
It not about tying it to the here and now, but rather extrapolating a future from here and now. That's what they did in 1964, 1979, 1987 and so on.
Wait, I'll get my time machine...You have to go back to before the reboot to grasp what I was saying.
I completely agree. Although tptb must have done some research into perceptions of Star Trek which led them to the conclusion that larger numbers of viewers would not accept a more subtle update to the production based more closely on TOS (disclaimer: obviously I’m not arguing for an exact replica of TOS. I’m suggesting a more subtle update that was more faithful to TOS than the more radical update we got). It would be great to see their market research that indicated that viewers wouldn’t accept TOS and that there was so little demand for that style of Star Trek that such a radical departure from TOS was decided upon (by Fuller or whomever else).
Ultimately I suppose the relative success of DSC will prove this assertion to be correct
Maybe one of the new Star Trek shows will be able to be even more creative in its reimagining of Star Trek than DSC was.
Bringing all of this back to the Enterprise - in spite of all of the above, it’s actually surprising that they’ve changed so little of the design. The filter that they use to design things obviously has both a selective and limited range as certain things look more like their TOS counterparts than others.
Enterprise, phaser, communicator - look vaguely similar. Well, quite similar actually.
Uniforms, interiors, LCARS, holograms, Windows, rest of the design of the starfleet, blue space - much more of a departure.
Can I be your companion?
Star Trek has always been about making money. Ever since TOS
I think she'll find a line outside her TARDIS.
Sure, just remember to bring your gold star for mathematical excellence
Who said I got a TARDIS? If Captain Jack can time travel with style so can I!
Ooh I hear those wrist mounted vortex manipulators are no way to travel...Sure, just remember to bring your gold star for mathematical excellence
Who said I got a TARDIS? If Captain Jack can time travel with style so can I!
Pff. You just have to get in touch with your natural side. Not all thise TARDIS high-tech shit. Just attach a good old wristband to to your wrist, grab a friend and hope that they don't get lost in the vortex...
I'm wondering if they actually did any in-depth market research. If they did, it would definitely be interesting to see what they found.
Yes, TOS was about making money....and being subservient to the network and all that.
But it seems like things are taken to extremes today.
Continuity can't just be established and followed.
Consider how many times they modified Worf's appearance. It wasn't just changing a hairstyle....it was altering his ridges.
Small changes in color and minor details could equate with a change to a modern hairstyle, for example, but I don't see the need to significantly alter the 'body' of the Enterprise.
Yes, TOS was about making money....and being subservient to the network and all that.
But it seems like things are taken to extremes today.
Continuity can't just be established and followed.
Consider how many times they modified Worf's appearance. It wasn't just changing a hairstyle....it was altering his ridges.
Small changes in color and minor details could equate with a change to a modern hairstyle, for example, but I don't see the need to significantly alter the 'body' of the Enterprise.
As long as it looks something like this, I'm good.
Reminds me of part of the bleachers from the local high school football field.
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