USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[Blamo]

I disagree here - I’m not sure why people hold this view. The only argument (if you can call it that) I’ve seen on here and elsewhere for not using the prime Enterprise design is that it was featured on a tv show in the 60s. That is, the design is old therefore it’s dated.

No, the argument is that it was made in the 1960's using 1960's techniques on a 1960's budget for 1960's sci-fi expectations. It looks cheap, it looks under detailed (which no amount of textures can fix) and it looks simplistic.

Hence why the movies used a refit as an excuse for not bringing the model back.

 

[BillJ]

That cloaking devices existed is the contradiction. Until the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" cloaking devices were theoretical.

Thing is, if I'm remembering correctly, the way they explain the Klingon cloak is similar to how Spock describes the Romulan cloak. But I only saw the episode once a while ago.

 

[BillJ]

It looks cheap, it looks under detailed

So much so, that they are still selling models of it fifty years later.

 

[Kor]

I much prefer the sleek, streamlined lack of surface junk of the classic Enterprise over the greebly sci-fi ships of later sci-fi.

Kor

 

[Vger23]

I much prefer the sleek, streamlined lack of surface junk of the classic Enterprise over the greebly sci-fi ships of later sci-fi.

Kor

Double true

 

[Mudd]

So much so, that they are still selling models of it fifty years later.

Well, yeah. No one will care, ten minutes after STD ends, what their version of the Enterprise looked like.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Thing is, if I'm remembering correctly, the way they explain the Klingon cloak is similar to how Spock describes the Romulan cloak. But I only saw the episode once a while ago.

Yep, they deliberately used "Balance of Terror" terminology like "invisibility screen"

 

[BillJ]

Yep, they deliberately used "Balance of Terror" terminology like "invisibility screen"

But they're totally not the same!

 

[Kemaiku]

Yep, they deliberately used "Balance of Terror" terminology like "invisibility screen"

It's perfectly simple, early Romulan ships could only manage Retro-Reflection panels, only better ships eventually used actual cloaks.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Speaking of cloaking devices, what about Chang's in TUC? When Sulu is advised that there is a bop that can fire while cloaked, his reply is "Surely not!?!"

And from what we see, he's right. It partially uncloaks, fires, and then completely cloaks again.

Which brings up another point: Shields.

According to what we saw onscreen, the transporter can not beam anyone or anything in or out while the shields are up. Yet, there must be a gap in the shields to allow for the weapons to fire.

So why is there not the ability to have a similar small opening in the shields to allow for the transporter to be used?

 

[BillJ]

It's perfectly simple, early Romulan ships could only manage Retro-Reflection panels, only better ships eventually used actual cloaks.

I think they used shower curtains with stars painted on them!

 

[Kemaiku]

I think they used shower curtains with stars painted on them!

The fiends!

Although I imagine the mermaids give it away from certain angles.

 

[BillJ]

Well, yeah. No one will care, ten minutes after STD ends, what their version of the Enterprise looked like.

I guess it bothers me how quickly we dismiss history for something new and shiny. The Enterprise, "the simple one with no detail", is a cultural icon. There has to have been a hundred books and blueprints of the thing printed over the last fifty years and people dismiss it because "it won't look good on big TV's" (which is complete and utter bullshit, it looks perfectly fine on my 50" 4K TV).

We have something that is such a cultural touchstone that it hangs in the Smithsonian Air and Space museum, yet doesn't get a bit of respect from most of the crowd who are only interested in whatever shiny bauble they can get today.

On one hand it makes me sad that the work of so many people who made Star Trek what it is, is dismissed so easily. On the other it makes me angry that we can't see past whatever the shiny toy of the moment is.

Make the show a reboot of the universe? Fine. Then it is creating its own legend instead of leeching off of the popularity of something none of the current creators had any hand in.

Rant over.

 

[ITDUDE]

No, the argument is that it was made in the 1960's using 1960's techniques on a 1960's budget for 1960's sci-fi expectations. It looks cheap, it looks under detailed (which no amount of textures can fix) and it looks simplistic.

Hence why the movies used a refit as an excuse for not bringing the model back.

I know I keep bringing this up. But as they say a picture (or 8 in this case) is worth a thousand words.

 

[Kemaiku]

The Enterprise, is a marketed scifi item in the real world, temporarily shiney scrap metal in-universe.

There's always another shinier, newer model waiting behind it.

Like any random model of car.

 

[BillJ]

There's always another shinier, newer model waiting behind it.

Like any random model of car.

Yeah. But Ford doesn't try to convince me that a 2018 Mustang is actually a 1964 Mustang.

 

[TrickyDickie]

It usually trips people up in trivia contests:

When did the original Enterprise appear on the big screen?

Never.

Wrong!

2:04 to 2:09 :

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And she looked just fine.

 

[Kemaiku]

Yeah. But Ford doesn't try to convince me that a 2018 Mustang is actually a 1964 Mustang.

Except in all the little retro details they throw into every model of Mustang from a vintage model, in fact it's one of the main models of car that does go out of it's way every time to incorperate some tiny detail of classic models.

 

[BillJ]

Except in all the little retro details they throw into every model of Mustang from a vintage model, in fact it's one of the main models of car that does go out of it's way every time to incorperate some tiny detail of classic models.

Yep. They'll throw in retro details, but still aren't trying to convince me it is something it clearly isn't. Putting the little boomerang on the side of the Discovery version doesn't make it the original Enterprise.

But there is some solace in that, like @Serveaux said, no one will remember this version ten minutes after Discovery is over.

 

[Tuskin38]

That cloaking devices existed is the contradiction. Until the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" cloaking devices were theoretical.

The perfect cloak was theoretical, not the device itself.