I think Crazy Eddi made some very good points. Solid holograms are not all knowing, they only sense what the human organs sense. They can't see behind themselves, or with their hands.
USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?
- Thread starter EJD1984
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I think Crazy Eddi made some very good points. Solid holograms are not all knowing, they only sense what the human organs sense. They can't see behind themselves, or with their hands.
Also, the technology to create fully actualized simulated personalities seems to be beyond 23rd century science as well. They're still "AIs with voice interfaces" at this time. M5 was the first attempt to create a genuine personality in a computer, and the result was the computer going insane and trying to kill everyone. Data was, arguably, another attempt, but the Enterprise-D (ironically) finally solved the problem ACCIDENTALLY in the holodeck. Voyager and other ships were probably outfitted with the EMH based on the lessons learned from the Enterprise's holodeck mishaps.
The overall point: if the Doctor was just a medical AI, then his "program" and personality would be otherwise independent of his projected image, nor would he have any direct experience of being "in" sickbay or anywhere on the ship since his real existence is in the computer in the first place. He'd be able to experience the world through the ship's internal sensors, tricorders, comm badges, various peripheral devices, and anything else that can share data with the computer. And then it wouldn't matter if his image could be projected outside of sickbay or not, because he can just as easily appear on one of the monitors whenever he needs to talk to anyone.
The overall point: if the Doctor was just a medical AI, then his "program" and personality would be otherwise independent of his projected image, nor would he have any direct experience of being "in" sickbay or anywhere on the ship since his real existence is in the computer in the first place. He'd be able to experience the world through the ship's internal sensors, tricorders, comm badges, various peripheral devices, and anything else that can share data with the computer. And then it wouldn't matter if his image could be projected outside of sickbay or not, because he can just as easily appear on one of the monitors whenever he needs to talk to anyone.
Are we still talking about the more advanced tech on Discovery? I'm tempted to start spouting "FAKE NEWS" whenever someone brings that up.
You can choose to classify it any way you want, but this is the way it is now, best to stop dwelling on it. It ain't going back.
My fanwank is that holographic communications in Trek are a bit like 3D movies. Every few decades, someone decides they've got the problems of the previous generation of the technology solved, it becomes a fad for a few years, then people get bored and frustrated with it and switch back to regular 2D screens. We've got them in Discovery, then in TUC, and again in the late TNG-era, but they never last long. Hell, they made such a big deal about the holocomm on DS9, then they used it twice before throwing it away.
Not long before "Where No Man Has Gone Before..."
ADMIRAL (standing in front of the helm, translucently): Good luck with this expedition, Jim. Personally, I'm sure the only thing beyond the edge of the galaxy is a bit more space and a bit less stuff, but if anyone's going to prove me wrong, it'll be you. Starfleet out.
KIRK (leaning back in his chair and rubbing his eyes): Mr. Alden, new standing orders; route all holocomms to the regular viewers. I can't be getting briefings when it gives me a headache to look at the Admiral. Who thought this stuff was ready for fleetwide use? They're transparent, I can't focus my eyes on them.
Did someone step on it?
Well, it's consistent with the flat aesthetic that afflicts all DISC Starfleet ships....
Not a fan. I like the long necks of the Connies, original and refit. The squat neck look that started with the Excelsior just doesn't work for me.
DSC holograms are nothing like TNG holograms. They're a pretty reasonable extrapolation of the kind of computing and display technology we have now, which incidentally is massively ahead of what was depicted in TOS, so... However you slice it, a certain segment of the audience realllly needs to accept that they are making this show now and not in the sixties
I think that's meant to be the Crossfield, not the connie.
I'm just saying I like the necks on the Connies and not the shorter/no neck look of later ships.
This is very imaginative, but it's mostly supposition.
They're pretty clear about what makes the Doctor tick, what he wants and why he can't have it. They even had episodes where they tried to install holoemitters in other parts of the ship, with various levels of success. They've never once differentiated types of holographic emitter.
If you need to write an essay with a bunch of stuff in it never actually said in the show to explain how a discontinuity isn't really a discontinuity...
Its a minor retcon that changes nothing. Tech uses technobabble BS to cover all kinds of plot holes and flaws.
Nothing in DSC. It makes Voyager a bizarre curiosity, being a starship with holoemitters in sickbay and the holodeck only when ships from over a century before had them on the bridge, in engineering, in crew quarters, the captains' ready room and wherever else they wanted.
It makes O'Brien look like an idiot, being proud of "new" technology which is actually over 100 years old and far less flexible in application (Defiant's was limited to one pad on the bridge, the DSC holograms wander where they want and even lean on things)
I don't think it covers them. DSC is more than a visual retcon, it makes the characters from later shows look stupid. ENT did the same to the TOS characters as well.
I'm not offended by it, I'm not upset by it, but I acknowledge the discontinuity is there and it goes beyond the visuals.
No, its makes a few tiny things odd, that can be explained away with techno babble. And the second thing can be retconned out, no change at all really.in the 1990's it was super cool, in 2017 its simply expected by the 250's
Eh they all looked stupid when ENT retconend the whole damned history of a race and made Kirk and screw look super stupid. This is a tiny retcon that in the long run changes not a damned thing. Eddie already gave you a trek explanation that is likeily better than you would have ever got 20 years ago.
There's only one very specific kind of emitter or device that can actually run the Doctor's program. His program cannot run on a monitor, nor can it run as a background process on the main computer (this is why he basically looses consciousness whenever they shut him down, and it's why his being left on for long periods of time is problematic). He is remarkably hardware-specific. So the projected image one interacts with is not "just" an image of the Doctor, it's something fundamental to his existence on a very crucial way. That's why it seems evident that hologram ITSELF is a component of the program; the Doctor is programmed to respond to stimuli that impinges on the forcefield that gives him shape and texture, to the extent the hologram is basically his physical body.
The technical term for this is a "photonic life form." I suspect this isn't actually even a new term, it's probably a Starfleet buzzword for what Spock used to call "pure energy." Zephram Cochrane's companion, Sargon, and the Lights of Zetar and maybe even the Organians would be examples of self-coherent life forms that manage to continue to exist without an external power source. The Doctor only becomes coherent with the use of his mobile emitter, which means the Federation isn't at the same tech level as the Organians... but then, we kinda knew that already, didn't we?
Really, I would have to write an essay or two in an attempt to explain how literally anything on Voyager could even BEGIN to make sense. But you're the one who brought up Voyager, so...
Is there any actual reason to think the Doctor sees with his fake eyes rather than with Sickbay's sensors?
I mean, he waves tricorders and other equipment around and then pretends to be looking at their displays. But he'd need to wave those tools around to let them do their job; Sickbay could then ingest the information, be it via direct wifi or (for some reason X) looking at the displays.
The same with him using the wall monitors. He needs to use the tools, built for humanoid use; he needs to be seen at the other end. His conversations with databases involve his isolated software accessing other software that is not part of him, and he can either pretend to do that by pushing buttons or actually do it by pushing buttons, as long as he makes his patients comfortable.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, he waves tricorders and other equipment around and then pretends to be looking at their displays. But he'd need to wave those tools around to let them do their job; Sickbay could then ingest the information, be it via direct wifi or (for some reason X) looking at the displays.
The same with him using the wall monitors. He needs to use the tools, built for humanoid use; he needs to be seen at the other end. His conversations with databases involve his isolated software accessing other software that is not part of him, and he can either pretend to do that by pushing buttons or actually do it by pushing buttons, as long as he makes his patients comfortable.
Timo Saloniemi
That's fandom. Without those essays, there would be several sites that wouldn't exist.
Fandom, in general, has a perchance to rationalize apparent discontinuities, and DISCO is no exception. Nor does it make it any different than any other Star Trek.
I would have to actually watch a large number of Voyager episodes to come up with specific examples (something I am not willing to do right now) but I can think of multiple occasions where the Doctor has had to physically move from one part of sickbay to another to investigate a noise or something that he couldn't see from where he was standing. Two examples fresh in my mind are the use of tricorders, and also the fact that until the advent of the mobile emitter he had a tendency to use the actual sickbay monitors to converse with the rest of the crew. Having to do this at all implies he's reliant on the forcefield not just for interaction but also for sensory input. Otherwise, it would be like IBM's watson sending a remote controlled robot to dial an actual telephone so it can call tech support. It would be an unnecessary workaround for something that's already integrated into that same hardware architecture.
But he DOESN'T need that, that's my point. He's supposed to be a "temporary supplement to the medical team" not an actual holographic crewmember. The only people he should ever have to interact with are the people in the actual sickbay, meaning doctors and nurses and any of the sick and injured he has to help care for. That his image is hyper realistic is meant to make him easier to work with and to make his patients feel better about the whole process, but otherwise he's basically Doctor Siri.
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