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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

(Hell, they could have given Control an equally ambitious goal - "make all FTL-travel in the galaxy impossible" - and it would have actually made sense and be in line with it's original programming. There is no threat to any planet from outer space, if no-one can access outer space. And yet it's obvious our heroes would fight to stop it. "Killing everything just 'cause" simply makes for baaaaad writing. It still would have been unbelievably over the top. But at least not as laughable generic as it currently is).

I can see why the reasoning behind Control's destruction of sentient life being ambiguous disturbs some people. But I disagree that it makes for bad writing. Me, I find that an enemy that cannot be reasoned with or rationalized would be the scariest enemy of all to a rational society trying to keep its ideals while fighting for its existence
 
It's not hard. It's just lazy. You can have a badguy who's dog got run over, and thus he decides to destroy all of humanity with a nuclear weapon as revenge. That "makes sense" and gets the plot going. But it makes for an awful story.
It doesn't automatically make an "awful story." That is in the in execution. And, I would find such a villain compelling if written well. But, what do I know? I personally find Nero highly compelling and would take him over most Trek film villains, save for Chang.
So far, there has been no explanation as to why "Control becoming sentient" is irreconciable with "organic life existing in the galaxy", especially in a galaxy that has a vast multitude of already existing A.I. side-by-side with biological lifeforms.
Emphasis on "so far." I'm willing to wait.
 
Actually Star Trek started out with bad guys. Talosians who treated Captain Pike as a lab rat,

PIKE: And that's it? No apologies? You captured one of us, threatened all of us—!
TALOSIAN: Your unsuitability has condemned the Talosian race to eventual death. Is this not sufficient?
MAGISTRATE: No other specimen has shown your adaptability. You were our last hope.
PIKE: But wouldn't some form of trade, mutual co-operation...?
MAGISTRATE: Your race would learn our power of illusion and destroy itself too.

...the salt vampire who mocked Spock and McCoy as it was murdering Kirk,

KIRK: Medical department report, Doctor.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: Oh. Well, we could offer it salt without tricks. There's no reason for it to attack us.
SPOCK: Your attitude is laudable, Doctor, but your reasoning is reckless.
CRATER: The creature is not dangerous when fed.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: No, it's simply trying to survive by using its natural ability to take other forms.
CRATER: The way the chameleon uses its protective colouring, an ability retained no doubt from its primitive state, the way we have retained our incisor teeth. They were once fangs. Certain of our muscles were designed for chase. It uses its ability the way we would use our muscles and teeth if necessary, to stay alive.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: And like us, it's an intelligent animal. There's no need to hunt it down.
SPOCK: A very interesting hypothesis, Doctor.

...Charlie X...

KIRK: The boy belongs with his own kind.
THASIAN: That would be impossible.
KIRK: With training, we can teach him to live in our society. If he can be taught not to use his power—
THASIAN: We gave him the power so he could live. He will use it, always, and he would destroy you and your kind, or you would be forced to destroy him to save yourselves.
KIRK: Is there nothing you can do?
THASIAN: We offer him life, and we will take care of him. Come, Charles.

...and Gary Mitchell who were given godlike powers which they abused without a second thought.
KIRK: Captain's log, Stardate 1313.8. Add to official losses, Doctor Elizabeth Dehner. Be it noted she gave her life in performance of her duty. Lieutenant Commander Gary Mitchell, same notation. I want his service record to end that way. He didn't ask for what happened to him.
SPOCK: I felt for him, too.
 
I can see why the reasoning behind Control's destruction of sentient life being ambiguous disturbs some people. But I disagree that it makes for bad writing. Me, I find that an enemy that cannot be reasoned with or rationalized would be the scariest enemy of all to a rational society trying to keep its ideals while fighting for its existence.

I won't be dissatisfied if there remains ambiguity about whatever Control actual motives and reasoning are. Nomad, after all, didn't either care or know the actual reasons why it sought to destroy sentient life was an accidental merging of two alien computer systems. It just carried on with its mixed up programming to the end accepting what it was currently programmed to do without question.
 
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Edit: My apologies-I'm thinking of the wrong tech.

Looking over the two methods again, I see they aren't exactly the same, but it does appear they have more in common with each other than with the traditional star trek slider controls as depicted in most series as they both depict a kind of 'bullseye' lock-on to whatever is being beamed up, involving a kind of visual depiction of the lock on.

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Looking over the two methods again, I see they aren't exactly the same, but it does appear they have more in common with each other than with the traditional star trek slider controls as depicted in most series as they both depict a kind of 'bullseye' lock-on to whatever is being beamed up, involving a kind of visual depiction of the lock on.

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Yeah, I can see that now. Don't completely agree but fair enough.
 
PIKE: And that's it? No apologies? You captured one of us, threatened all of us—!
TALOSIAN: Your unsuitability has condemned the Talosian race to eventual death. Is this not sufficient?
MAGISTRATE: No other specimen has shown your adaptability. You were our last hope.
PIKE: But wouldn't some form of trade, mutual co-operation...?
MAGISTRATE: Your race would learn our power of illusion and destroy itself too.



KIRK: Medical department report, Doctor.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: Oh. Well, we could offer it salt without tricks. There's no reason for it to attack us.
SPOCK: Your attitude is laudable, Doctor, but your reasoning is reckless.
CRATER: The creature is not dangerous when fed.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: No, it's simply trying to survive by using its natural ability to take other forms.
CRATER: The way the chameleon uses its protective colouring, an ability retained no doubt from its primitive state, the way we have retained our incisor teeth. They were once fangs. Certain of our muscles were designed for chase. It uses its ability the way we would use our muscles and teeth if necessary, to stay alive.
CREATURE AS MCCOY: And like us, it's an intelligent animal. There's no need to hunt it down.
SPOCK: A very interesting hypothesis, Doctor.



KIRK: The boy belongs with his own kind.
THASIAN: That would be impossible.
KIRK: With training, we can teach him to live in our society. If he can be taught not to use his power—
THASIAN: We gave him the power so he could live. He will use it, always, and he would destroy you and your kind, or you would be forced to destroy him to save yourselves.
KIRK: Is there nothing you can do?
THASIAN: We offer him life, and we will take care of him. Come, Charles.


KIRK: Captain's log, Stardate 1313.8. Add to official losses, Doctor Elizabeth Dehner. Be it noted she gave her life in performance of her duty. Lieutenant Commander Gary Mitchell, same notation. I want his service record to end that way. He didn't ask for what happened to him.
SPOCK: I felt for him, too.

Certain antagonists, IMO, are work best with regards to the fact we can feel sympathy for them. Other antagonists, like terminators, aliens, lovecraftian horrors, work best when we can't.
 
That Control would go for absolutes is sort of given. Control isn't fumbling in the dark for answers or considering alternatives. Thanks to the Sphere, and a bit of time travel, it already has all the answers, and firmly believes in an immutable and certain future. There's no need to ponder whether a bit of diversity would do good for the universe: perfection can be purified and concentrated into just one divine form of existence, and detracting from that provides no advantage. Diversity is a backup plan, and certainty needs no backups.

...What was the longest-running TrekBBS thread within the actual topic fori again? Are we even close to a record with 522 pages yet?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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If the bridge is modular,it is a big change from The Cage and WNMHGB.
As far as we know, Starfleet ships' bridges have always been modular. They can be easily replaced with new ones at any time without damaging the rest of the ship.
Just to keep everything in perspective here, we should note that this was always an ad hoc, post hoc rationalization that Okuda and Sternbach came up with to account for the fact that the Enterprise-A bridge kept getting redesigned between films, and that TNG kept using different set redresses for various bridges across vessels of (apparently) the same class:

The concept of the replaceable bridge module originated during Star Trek V, when we were working with Herman Zimmerman on a new Enterprise bridge that was quite a bit different from the one seen in Star Trek IV. We rationalized that this was because the bridge, located at the top of the saucer, was a plug-in module designed for easy replacement. This would permit the ship's control systems to be upgraded, thereby extending the useful lifetime of a starship, and would make it easier to customize a particular ship for a specific type of mission. This concept also fits the fact that we've seen the main bridges of at least four different Miranda class starships, the Reliant (Star Trek II), the Saratoga (Star Trek IV), the Lantree ("Unnatural Selection"), and the Brattain ("Night Terrors"), each of which had a different bridge module.

-Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, 1991, pg. 32​

Of course, it's a perfectly sensible and serviceble one. And it followed on in the long tradition of considering the Enterprise to be comprised of modular components that could be disassembled and swapped out, which had been in place since the very beginning...

Matt Jefferies' original reasoning for placing the nacelles outboard, beyond the potential that "they might be dangerous to be around," was that such placement "would also make them what, in aviation circles, we call the QCU—quick change units—where you could easily take one off and put another on." Initial iterations of the Star Trek Writers/Directors' Guide explained that the saucer section was intended as "a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short-range solar system exploration." (Mind you, it was also intended to be "twenty decks thick" at that point, too! And the shuttle bay was likewise "large enough to hangar a whole fleet of today's jet liners"! Such capability is at least vaguely alluded to onscreen, though, in episodes like "The Apple" [TOS].)

Well, it's so obviously of different size that plugging the DSC bridge into the hole left by the "The Cage" one would require a big mallet...

...Or perhaps the cutting off of some hull ahead of the bridge?
Go big or go home, say I! However we ultimately treat "The Cage," per the "original intent" above, the Enterprise could at the very least quite conceivably find herself in receipt of a completely new saucer (why not lengthen the neck while we're at it), a full new set of nacelles and pylons (with their angle of arrangement adjusted to re-balance the warp field geometry or whatever), and a new main deflector/primary sensor array to go along with the package, all between Pike and Kirk (or perhaps rather under Kirk, in those first several "years" he'd evidently already had command of her by the outset of TOS, per dialogue in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Amok Time" and character notes in The Making Of Star Trek). Oh, and speaking of the hangar deck, doesn't that protruding lip that's caused so much consternation for some here look ripe for being covered over to accommodate extended hangar space? (And with the bowling alley installed below, no doubt, just as in Franz Joseph's plans!)

As for those of you folks out there who view this as contorted fanwankery...well, ok, guilty as charged. But, I'll just point out that—all quibbles over this or that hull detail or calendar year notwithstanding—it would be more or less right in line with what the Okudas always conjectured would come next for the old girl in their Star Trek Chronology: "U.S.S. Enterprise, under command of Captain Christopher Pike, completes its second five-year mission of exploration. The ship enters spacedock for a major refit. During this refit, the ship's crew capacity is boosted from 203 to 430."

-MMoM:D
 
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I don't get how folks didn't understand from the outset, that Jar-Jar WAZ SUPPOSEZD 2 B ANNOYIONG!
:crazy:
Qui-Gon and Obi Wan practically tell him this to his face on several occasions in the movies.
:cool:

Knowing that doesn't stop him from being annoying, though.

As far as we know, Starfleet ships' bridges have always been modular.

And as far as we know, they never were. Modular bridges are just something the fandom accepts without any mention of it onscreen.

The trend of having actual, true "bad" guys on Star Trek started with "Wrath of Khan" - and never stopped since then. But where it was once relegated to only the movies, new series often try themselves to be "movies", and thus more and more follow that easy plot line.

It doesn't help that many movies since TWOK have tried to "recapture" that movie's success and feel.

I agree with Fireproof. TWOK is probably the Trek movies' high point, but they need to stop trying to emulate it. They have much better odds of doing something great if they take it in different directions.

Khan was a masterclass in writing - his complete single-mindedness on revenge was palpable.

So much so, in fact, that Khan himself quoted Moby Dick, as if he knew his quest would lead to his demise, but sought it anyway.
 
So far, there has been no explanation as to why "Control becoming sentient" is irreconciable with "organic life existing in the galaxy", especially in a galaxy that has a vast multitude of already existing A.I. side-by-side with biological lifeforms.

Control's a weird bird. It's obviously already self-aware, right? So why would the Sphere data change anything?
 
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