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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

400 meter range fits better with the interior set sizes, on both the TOS and refit versions.

King Daniel can probably explain it better.
Years ago, Shaw did some amazing work in the TOS forum, showing how the sets can fit into the TOS Enterprise with the 20 decks she was originally envisioned with. But it all falls apart when you try to cram in the 23 decks Roddenberry stated in The Making of Star Trek, leading to things like Doug Drexler cheating and upscaling the ship by 1/3 in his cutaway, or Franz Jospeh giving the ship 8' ceilings in his blueprints.

None of that applies to the Disco Enterprise though, since it's sets are completely different and are in no way trying to fit with TOS'.
Eh. To each their own. The Trek universe functioned just fine with a 289-meter TOS Enterprise until this year. In the end most Federation starships cram more into their hulls than should probably be logical for vessels of their established sizes.
I really don't get why it matters in a show that's reimagined absolutely everything about the Trekverse?

Although I am quite sure this is the hill the guy from Ex Astris Scientia is going to die on.
 
At the end of the day I'll just shrug and ignore the Eaglemoss specifications anyways if it helps me enjoy the series and the Enterprise. Oh, this graphic will set off a supernova of Nerdrage on both sides of the argument. The pedantry is about to go off the charts.
 
A height of 76.2 meters? Good. This means she's not going to be ridiculously oversized for this time period. This matches the original Franz Joseph dimensions for the TOS Enterprise's height which means she can no longer be more than 400 meters long unless she's stretched out like a piece of taffy in a Spacedock-sized pull, which we know isn't going to happen.

At least someone in the production crew finally realized that blowing up everything to an inconsistent and ridiculous size just because "cool" wasn't exactly the best idea. I have to say I had a very pleasant reaction to seeing that graphic.

As long as she's not about 450 meters long and closer to 300 I can overlook some inaccurate specs on a computer readout. There are issues with the dimensions of every version of the NCC-1701 in both the Prime and Kelvin Timelines so this won't be anything new. In the end I can easily dismiss some nitpicks re: the Franz Joseph specifications if she's not a juggernaut compared to her TOS version.

You do know that the ~300m size of the TOS-Enterprise comes from an early Jeffries-sketch of the ship from a time, when the saucer was supposed to only be one(!) deck high (and why the "the cage"-version had such a tall bridge dome to fit the set "inside").

Before airing, they added a econd row of windows to the saucer of the model, and a lower bridge module - and wile on the TOS model the windows now are clearly oversized to the proportions, the TMP-refit absolutely makes it clear that the saucer is supposed to be at least two(!) decks high - with two rows of now adjusted window size, and even a set built (that's two stores high) that has a specific point at the saucer edge where it is set, with two levels of windows directly facing the nacelles.

The 300m was untenable the second the Enterprise's size was doubled between "the cage" and the proper series. 450+ meters is WAY more reasonable.

The old size has always been non-canon anyway, but it stuck, because it got repeated so often in non-canon books. Which doesn't make it any more valid though.
 
The old size has always been non-canon anyway, but it stuck, because it got repeated so often in non-canon books. Which doesn't make it any more valid though.
The on-screen briefing room graphic in "The Enterprise Incident" showing a scale in feet notwithstanding (ironic episode title, by the way, given the topic), the dimensions of the TMP refit can be gleaned with reasonable accuracy from purely on-screen information, given the main window in the travel pod that Scotty drives Kirk around in.

I'm sure more than one fan has analyzed TMP to determine how well the VFX agreed with their stated intent for the size, e.g. based on David Kimble's cutaway poster and blueprints.
 
And the windows on the recreation deck which are visible on every incarnation of the refitted 1701 and the Enterprise-A throughout six movies. Scaled to the rec deck windows it would seem the Constitution-class refit's 305-meter length according to Paramount makes sense. We see five- or six-foot crewmembers standing in front of the windows in TMP and their heights compared to the windows and thus the Enterprise as a whole would indicate a ship about 1,000 feet long.
 
The on-screen briefing room graphic in "The Enterprise Incident" showing a scale in feet notwithstanding (ironic episode title, by the way, given the topic), the dimensions of the TMP refit can be gleaned with reasonable accuracy from purely on-screen information, given the main window in the travel pod that Scotty drives Kirk around in.

1. On-screen graphics aren't accurate most of the time - thus they are usually not included in the "canon" definition
2. Said graphic in 'Enterprise Incident' WAS that original Jeffries-sketch - wrong window-size and bridge-dome included!

I'm sure more than one fan has analyzed TMP to determine how well the VFX agreed with their stated intent for the size, e.g. based on David Kimble's cutaway poster and blueprints.

Yes they did. The conclusion is a size of at least ~450m. The cutaways (like Drexlers for "In a Mirror Darkly") usually cheat by having tiny (~1m) tall humans in order to properly fit them inside.

It's simply a bigger ship.
 
And in other news, the Friends appartment couldn't possibly fit into the building they show for the exterior.

It's all just movie magic. Building interiors made as sets have been bigger since TV began, to allow a wider range of camera angles etc. So perhaps the classic Enterprise interiors were actually intended to be smaller, and merely depicted and built larger for TV purposes? If that makes sense.
 
And in other news, the Friends appartment couldn't possibly fit into the building they show for the exterior.

It's all just movie magic. Building interiors made as sets have been bigger since TV began, to allow a wider range of camera angles etc. So perhaps the classic Enterprise interiors were actually intended to be smaller, and merely depicted and built larger for TV purposes? If that makes sense.

But even the Friends-apartment is roughly one floor high!
It's not as if they clearly show a two-floor tall apartment, with two rows of windows, but from the outside it's a single-floor house. That's what you're proposing for the Enterprise.

More than "rough estimate" simply isn't possible for a tv-show. The 450+ meters IS the rough estimate. One that barely fits and in all likelyhood still is too small to be real.

The <300m long version is just the utterly impossible inside-two-level-outside-one-level-abomination that happens when you upscale a design by the factor of two (to fit two levels inside), and somebody still uses the original half-sized design dimensions, because they didn't got the memo...
 
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1. On-screen graphics aren't accurate most of the time - thus they are usually not included in the "canon" definition
2. Said graphic in 'Enterprise Incident' WAS that original Jeffries-sketch - wrong window-size and bridge-dome included!
In this case, the drawings wound up in The Making of Star Trek, which also provided dimensions and other specifications of the Enterprise. This is really the foundation for assigning a length of 947 feet in the public consciousness. Given the history of the show, including the explosion of interest in it that occurred in the 1970s between TOS and TMP, it makes little difference whether those particular dimensions have what fans today would consider canonical status, because they nevertheless became part of the lore.

As is the case for any work of fiction, Star Trek ultimately does not mesh with reality, and therefore to pursue nth-degree realism is a wasted effort. As another example, historical events have been stated to have occurred in Star Trek's fictional history that we know didn't and/or won't happen for real. The characters also view events that did really happen somewhat differently than we do. That's simply a by-product of its fictional status.

The dimensions of the Enterprise are no different. In order to "get it right," we'd actually have to build the damn thing, working FTL and working transporters included. How else could we know how big it would really have to be?

At some point you have to accept that your stage is good enough for theater, stop working on it, and just freaking move on and present a play. Okudograms and other displays are really quite similar to technobabble; as a part of the scenery they're part of what defines the setting.

And yes, as something that appears on-screen, they are all fully canonical. But like all canon, they do not necessarily contribute to narrative continuity.
 
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Except not really, Monica/Rachael's apartment is much taller than Joey and Chandler's. And the rooms don't line up in any logical way.

Most apartment buildings have differently shaped units, especially old buildings. Joey & Chandler's unit was different because the stairwell would have been right behind it. As far as taller, I never noticed that.
 
In this case, the drawings wound up in The Making of Star Trek, which also provided dimensions and other specifications of the Enterprise. This is really the foundation for assigning a length of 947 feet in the public consciousness. Given the history of the show, including the explosion of interest in it that occurred in the 1970s between TOS and TMP, it makes little difference whether those particular dimensions have what fans today would consider canonical status, because they nevertheless became part of the lore.

As is the case for any work of fiction, Star Trek ultimately does not mesh with reality, and therefore to pursue nth-degree realism is a wasted effort. As another example, historical events have been stated to have occurred in Star Trek's fictional history that we know didn't and/or won't happen for real. The characters also view events that did really happen somewhat differently than we do. That's simply a by-product of its fictional status.

The dimensions of the Enterprise are no different. In order to "get it right," we'd actually have to build the damn thing, working FTL and working transporters included. How else could we know how big it would really have to be?

At some point you have to accept that your stage is good enough for theater, stop working on it, and just freaking move on and present a play. Okudograms and other displays are really quite similar to technobabble; as a part of the scenery they're part of what defines the setting.

And yes, as something that appears on-screen, they are all fully canonical. But like all canon, they do not necessarily contribute to narrative continuity.

But why keep fighting for a length that is both
  1. Obviously wrong - like, not even only "unrealistic", but utterly impossible, that
  2. NEVER was "canon" anyway, or part of "the lore".
"The Lore" is canon. If it's not canon, it's not part of the lore. Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet? Yeah, no. Never was official, only in a few non-canon books, and severly disproven with T'Pol. Enterprise is <300m? No. Severly disproven by common sense, and only ever used with BIG, RED, NON-CANON "don't take this stuff seriously it's bound to be overwritter"-flags.

It's NOT part of the lore. It's part of some tech-manuals that have been overwritten as long as Trek history exists (first warp ship anyone?), and was only put there in the first place because of an accounting error (not adjusting for the doubling in size that happened before the series aired).

The Enterprise is > 450m long. This isn't even a retcon or anything. This is just some tie-in-material-makers back in the day didn't correcting an outdated number.
 
"The Lore" is canon. If it's not canon, it's not part of the lore.
If you keep repeating that, I'm sure that somebody will believe it.

But the fact is, not all canon matches the lore. For example, "The Squire of Gothos" places TOS in the 27th century or later by the contention that Gothos is 900 light-years from Earth, because the bust of Napoleon is in Trelane's collection prior to his learning of his error in time. The lore is that TOS took place in the 23rd century. That was part of the lore before it was canonically confirmed in TNG after partial confirmation in TWOK (wherein it was asserted that TWOK took place in the 23rd century, while still remaining silent about when TOS occurred).

Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet?
Straw man.

The Enterprise is > 450m long. This isn't even a retcon or anything. This is just some tie-in-material-makers back in the day didn't correcting an outdated number.
Funny, now you're trying to have it both ways. The length of the TOS Enterprise hasn't been asserted in dialog. Whatever you are saying there about the length is non-canonical.
 
The Defiant’s CG model in the ENT Mirror episodes was scaled to 289, obvious when compared to the NX-class

I doubt you’ll find a sci-if series where the interiors fit perfectly.
 
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The Defiant’s CG model in the ENT Mirror episodes was scaled to 289, obvious when compared to the NX-class

I doubt you’ll find a sci-if series where the interiors fit perfectly.

I thought the ENT Mirror Defiant established the 450m scale per the schematics?
 
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