Thats very interesting. But it certainly doesn’t look like anything that would have come out of TOS.
Unseen TOS....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
I wasn't implying that it did. I just pointed it out because it would have been the first instance of a canon Gorn ship in Star Trek.
I’m sure it was mentioned upthread somewhere, but this is what Drexler designed for the remastered “Arena”. I kind of liked it, but thought it was more sculptured that what Jefferies or Wah would have done. So, when I did mine, I tried to do something that could exist in the same universe with Drexler’s, but (IMO) conformed more to the TOS antecedents.
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/shipcollection/gorn-rear.jpg
Then there are the SFB ships, which did more with the Gorn than anyone. I don’t think you can conceptualize an “Arena” Gorn ship and not at least draw somewhat from SFB. Again, I tried to make it so mine could maybe exist in the SFB universe, too. This was the SFB ship I was reimagining.
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/gorn/gorn_lightcruiser2.jpg
So, Wah/Jefferies for the saucer, Drexler for the overall “alien gangliness” and the guns, and SFB for everything else. It should be noted that the saucer for the Wah model is drawn from various Jefferies sketches.
http://www.subspace.cz/wp-content/uploads/early_sketch-jefferies-1.png
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-axxAP4ocIHE/Vpk4igQK-UI/AAAAAAAAmOY/WBbUFZXa-wc/s1600/Roddenberry+Vault+09A+USS+Enterprise+concept+art.jpg
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/shipcollection/gorn-rear.jpg
Then there are the SFB ships, which did more with the Gorn than anyone. I don’t think you can conceptualize an “Arena” Gorn ship and not at least draw somewhat from SFB. Again, I tried to make it so mine could maybe exist in the SFB universe, too. This was the SFB ship I was reimagining.
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/gorn/gorn_lightcruiser2.jpg
So, Wah/Jefferies for the saucer, Drexler for the overall “alien gangliness” and the guns, and SFB for everything else. It should be noted that the saucer for the Wah model is drawn from various Jefferies sketches.
http://www.subspace.cz/wp-content/uploads/early_sketch-jefferies-1.png
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-axxAP4ocIHE/Vpk4igQK-UI/AAAAAAAAmOY/WBbUFZXa-wc/s1600/Roddenberry+Vault+09A+USS+Enterprise+concept+art.jpg
Jim Martin's my favorite illustrator from TNG era; his work was a wonder to behold. His work along with his USS Defiant was bar none, he had a way of fleshing out ideas for an existing brand. As for the Gorn design, I like it a lot, although I feel it doesn't look like anything from TOS.
What the current producers of 'nuTOS' Trek don't seem to understand, in my opinion, is that simpler is better. In DSC season 1 we see a bunch of pre-TOS Starfleet vessels, and they all look overly designed to the point where they would look better as ships built post-TUC, or pre-TNG. Even the Enterprise, when we finally see her, has nothing of the grace and simplicity of Jeffries's original (although all this has more to do with their choice of designer than anything else.)
^^ We are talking about two distinct sense of aesthetics. Back in the day Jefferies had a reason for designing the ship as he did. The smooth hull also conveyed the idea of very advanced engineering and technology that made it look far beyond contemporary understanding. But in the ‘70s the fashion was to make things look industrial and more comprehensible in how things supposedly worked. Hence the addition of reaction thrusters all over the hull of the refit E where the TOS had no such things. They also made a point of showing hull plating to suggest how the ship’s hull was constructed. This was all part of the fashion of trying to make things look more real.
But in doing so they compromised the genuine far future connotation of Jefferies’ original design.
But in doing so they compromised the genuine far future connotation of Jefferies’ original design.
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That was my point. If a future production is going to go back to the TOS era, then the aesthetic should match that era, or at least as close as you can get without it looking dated or out of place. They made DSC look like any other sci-fi show being produced in the 2000's. They claim that those shows take place in the same universe as the shows that came before. They then apparently put little to no effort into making the current shows consistent with the old shows. How an individual viewer chooses to reconcile that in their own mind—separate universes, 'visual reboot,' etc.—is entirely between them and whatever god/gods/wormhole aliens they may or may not believe in.
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^^ Yeah, I know there are those who like to squint really hard and pretend it’s all the same continuity. I find it’s just easier to accept it as separate unrelated continuities that merely share some familiar names and references.
As such we have never, or not yet, actually seen any genuine pre TOS events other than “The Cage.” ENT, JJtrek, DSC and the forthcoming SNW are an entirely different continuity (or continuities) from TOS.
As such we have never, or not yet, actually seen any genuine pre TOS events other than “The Cage.” ENT, JJtrek, DSC and the forthcoming SNW are an entirely different continuity (or continuities) from TOS.
What you guys mentioned put a tear to my eye; so happy to read real Trek fans convey what I've been saying through DISCO message boards for years.
To that end I can say I don’t care for people retconning aztek hull plating, reaction thrusters and Christmas Tree lighting all over the TOS E design.
I also feel that this tends to be the wrong direction people take when trying to 're-envision' TOS. I loved the Abrams films, but the new Enterprise design sucked, not the least of which because its designer took cues from the TMP films rather than the show itself.
TOS is a completely different beast all together. It stands apart from the rest of Star Trek.
Well, it's first-generation Star Trek. TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT is second generation Star Trek, and DSC/PIC/LDS/PRO/SNW is third-generation Star Trek. It's very hard to convince the people making 3rd gen Trek to follow what was done in 1st gen Trek, because they want to ignore 1st gen Trek and make their own stuff (of dubious superiority to said 1st gen Trek.)
Honestly, I never thought TMP followed TOS so it's hard for me to hold that against current productions when first gen didn't hold themselves to that nebulous standard. Warped9 is taking a very different approach. I appreciate it but I would never expect a production company to follow it.
Yeah, TMP is a case of squinting to line it up with TOS. It would have worked better if it were definitely set ten years after TOS rather than just under three.
One of the things I initially and intermittently liked about Star Trek Continues was that it felt like they were genuinely trying to recapture that distinct TOS vibe. But ultimately I was disappointed as it became about connecting the dots with later productions and thereby ruining the sense this was something distinct. It lost the feeling that it could have been 1969 because they kept trying to tie it to things that didn’t exist in 1969. Sometimes it was subtle like using terminology and jargon that didn’t yet exist and other times it was more blatant with obvious callouts to later productions and doing kinds of stories it was highly unlikely to have been done on TOS.
I know I was a vocal minority on this, but it really disappointed me. They did things I wish they hadn’t done and missed doing things they could and should have done.
Despite being written by SF author Robert J. Sawyer I really took issue with the two-part STC finale. It really pissed me off. I seriously doubt the TOS writers would have gone back with a story to connect to WNMHGB (and “The Enterprise Incident”) and there is certainly no way in hell the TOS staff in 1969/70 would have had any idea of what would be coming in TMP. This was something I could expect to read in a Pocket Books novel, not in an actual TOS episode made back in the day. It was pure fanfic.
And this is where STC, and a lot of fan productions, stumbled. Despite whatever good things they achieved they couldn’t escape the indulgent connect-the-dots fanfic mentality.
One of the things I initially and intermittently liked about Star Trek Continues was that it felt like they were genuinely trying to recapture that distinct TOS vibe. But ultimately I was disappointed as it became about connecting the dots with later productions and thereby ruining the sense this was something distinct. It lost the feeling that it could have been 1969 because they kept trying to tie it to things that didn’t exist in 1969. Sometimes it was subtle like using terminology and jargon that didn’t yet exist and other times it was more blatant with obvious callouts to later productions and doing kinds of stories it was highly unlikely to have been done on TOS.
I know I was a vocal minority on this, but it really disappointed me. They did things I wish they hadn’t done and missed doing things they could and should have done.
Despite being written by SF author Robert J. Sawyer I really took issue with the two-part STC finale. It really pissed me off. I seriously doubt the TOS writers would have gone back with a story to connect to WNMHGB (and “The Enterprise Incident”) and there is certainly no way in hell the TOS staff in 1969/70 would have had any idea of what would be coming in TMP. This was something I could expect to read in a Pocket Books novel, not in an actual TOS episode made back in the day. It was pure fanfic.
And this is where STC, and a lot of fan productions, stumbled. Despite whatever good things they achieved they couldn’t escape the indulgent connect-the-dots fanfic mentality.
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It's an interesting case, largely because TOS means very different things to you or I than it ever could to the production team. Star Trek Continues reflects a different attitude because it had the larger whole of Trek to view TOS through. You and Continues also have something TOS didn't-time. They didn't have the luxury of thinking over it again like we do. It had to be thrown together and produced. Every thing about TOS is being thought of deeper than it ever was when it originally aired.
^^ Part of me would have loved being a story editor on STC. I would have been striking things out and telling them to be more original. I also would have been suggesting, “You can’t fuckin’ do that.” as well as, “Why aren’t you doing this?”
There were two particularly WTF stories STC did that really grated. One was “The White Iris” where they had to indulge in “fixing” the character if Kirk so that he expressed remorse over women he had loved who had died. WTF?? This was a Picard type story, not Kirk. No way in hell would this indulgent navel gazing have been written back in the day for Kirk. Then there was “Embrace The Winds” which effectively validated the ravings of the bitter loon Janice Lester—there were no female starship captains because the chauvinistic Tellerites objected to it so the Federation and Starfleet caved. WTF!
But you’re right in that they had a different world view. But in my opinion their worldview thoroughly undermined their initial statement that they wanted it to feel like 1969 again.
There were two particularly WTF stories STC did that really grated. One was “The White Iris” where they had to indulge in “fixing” the character if Kirk so that he expressed remorse over women he had loved who had died. WTF?? This was a Picard type story, not Kirk. No way in hell would this indulgent navel gazing have been written back in the day for Kirk. Then there was “Embrace The Winds” which effectively validated the ravings of the bitter loon Janice Lester—there were no female starship captains because the chauvinistic Tellerites objected to it so the Federation and Starfleet caved. WTF!
But you’re right in that they had a different world view. But in my opinion their worldview thoroughly undermined their initial statement that they wanted it to feel like 1969 again.
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Sad, you cannot hit 1969 again. As a fan the point of view is already skewed.
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