Unseen TOS....

[aridas sofia]

Well, if you're going to get that fastidious with timelines/continuities in your Trek, you're almost getting to a point where every other scene would have to be a separate continuity. Every time they make some goof during production with the costumes from shot to shot, every time Beverly has a new hairstyle because a new season started between scenes, every time an actor slightly mispronounces the name of a character or species, every time the transporter process takes slightly longer than the last time …

I imagine it's going to get unnecessarily complicated real fast. Isn't it easier to just accept that these are multiple separate productions, made by a multitude of different groups of people, each with different ideas, strengths and viewpoints, created over a span of decades? Sure, they want you to accept that it's all happening in one connected universe. But in the end it's the individual stories that matter, not the details. As much fun as it can be examining them.

I think it depends on how you are looking at it. If you are looking at the stories separate from the verisimilitude, then yes, it can be all one thing. But that sets up a conundrum, since the people making Star Trek obviously think the setting is important enough to lavish money and time to redesign everything every few years. If it’s important enough to re design, isn’t the design itself important enough to maintain continuity? The penchant for redesigning seems then to be a victory of ego over aesthetics. The fan who lets design do its job of supporting verisimilitude is left then with, yeah, separate realities. Or, junk the whole thing.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I've always looked at Trek as many alternate continuities or time lines, as each of these had retconned or blatantley changed a lot from the previous series and thus changed further from TOS.
I place them as the following:
0-Cage
1-TOS
2-TAS
3-TMP
4-TWoK through UDC
5-TNG
6-TNG Film Series
7-DS9 and VOY
8-ENT
9-JJverse
10-Disc, PIC
11-Lower Decks
13-Prodigy (I have not seen this series yet, so do not know for sure where his actually belongs)

If you look at this breakdown, you will see that every one of these has it's own continuity...they don't all jive together. Even DS9/Voyager strayed and retconned a lot from TNG, in terms of technology levels, morality, species mannerisms ...
Side note: The Borg of TNG's Q-who, are the "borg", the rest after that, became micro-quandaries and continuity errors unto themselves...more so than any other race besides humans of Trek.

And I am okay with that, this was what I've done with TOS movies, and I've enjoyed them. I don't require it to fit for me to enjoy them as long as one project does NOT desperately make attempts, not only tie in with it, but blatantly try to rewrite TOS and claim what they're doing was better (ENT, DISCO, STRANGE). TNG was clearly a descendent from the movies and I am okay with that, just f^cking move forward and make stories they want to tell and just leave TOS alone!

That abomination DISCO-prise and the elements seen on DISCO was so disrespectful to Star Trek; there was no need for Burnham to be a sort of relative to Spock, she could've had her own history with Vulcans with a unique backstory of their own separated from Sarak. There's so much the showrunners could explore and expand outside of Sarak or Spock's side of his world. Bullsh*t such as THAT I am forced to ignore it because it is not true to TOS, like ENT it had this condescending nature to believe it is better than TOS and I won't f^cking tolerate that.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, if you're going to get that fastidious with timelines/continuities in your Trek, you're almost getting to a point where every other scene would have to be a separate continuity. Every time they make some goof during production with the costumes from shot to shot, every time Beverly has a new hairstyle because a new season started between scenes, every time an actor slightly mispronounces the name of a character or species, every time the transporter process takes slightly longer than the last time …

I imagine it's going to get unnecessarily complicated real fast. Isn't it easier to just accept that these are multiple separate productions, made by a multitude of different groups of people, each with different ideas, strengths and viewpoints, created over a span of decades? Sure, they want you to accept that it's all happening in one connected universe. But in the end it's the individual stories that matter, not the details. As much fun as it can be examining them.

Yeah, that's the best way to view things like this. And honestly, the inconsistencies within TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the films were relatively insignificant, all things considered. It's only been since the establishment of the DSC 'universe' that there has been significant change in both the visuals and the chronology of the 'prime' universe. Surprisingly, LDS, PRO, and to a lesser extent PIC have still been more in line with 1st and 2nd generation Star Trek than DSC had in its first two seasons.

...since the people making Star Trek obviously think the setting is important enough to lavish money and time to redesign everything every few years. If it’s important enough to re design, isn’t the design itself important enough to maintain continuity?

No, unfortunately, that is not how they think. It's nuTrek, so they want to put their own spin on things. And while they talk the talk about wanting to 'maintain canon and continuity,' it's all just horseshit. They will be ready and eager to throw canon and continuity out the window if it interferes with the story they want to tell. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing, but when you advertise your show as taking place in the same universe as the earlier shows did, and then go out of your way to change everything from the get-go, then it's obvious what the intent is: They want to have their cake and eat it too. Instead of saying their shows are actually reboots, they say it all takes place in the same universe to get more people to watch the shows. It's simple marketing, but they think they are marketing to simpletons.

 

[STEPhon IT]

They are marketing CBS+ Trek to simpletons.

 

[Dukhat]

They are marketing CBS+ Trek to simpletons.

Despite my earlier statement, I was referring more to the idea that as far as DSC was concerned, CBS was playing fast and loose with 'continuity' (i.e. they simply don't care that things look different) and instead tried to insult my intelligence by saying it's all the same when it quite clearly isn't.

 

[Redfern]

Less griping...more renders...please!

 

[Dukhat]

Less griping...more renders...please!

Yes, I fear I am hijacking Warped9's post with my observations about CBS Trek.

 

[Warped9]

CBS makes me do it.

 

[fireproof78]

I love TOS but nu Trek is just as valid and doesn't reject TOS.

 

[Warped9]

I love TOS but nu Trek is just as valid and doesn't reject TOS.

We must agree to disagree. I’ve had this argume-, debate often enough.

 

[fireproof78]

We must agree to disagree. I’ve had this argume-, debate often enough.

As you say.

 

[publiusr]

The model before it got the final work over…

http://beyondthemarquee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Enterprise-Scale-Reference_2-600x387.jpg

.

I am not familiar with that photo. It was doubtless done hours before the water damage that led to the do-over.

I think the STARLOG SPACESHIP HANDBOOK (sec. ed.) had a bow-on shot.
After seeing how close ABC worked with TMP…does that shot have an ABC camera feel to it to anyone but me?

 

[aridas sofia]

I am not familiar with that photo. It was doubtless done hours before the water damage that led to the do-over.

I think the STARLOG SPACESHIP HANDBOOK (sec. ed.) had a bow-on shot.
After seeing how close ABC worked with TMP…does that shot have an ABC camera feel to it to anyone but me?

Wasn’t it the Phase II model that got water damaged? That photo is not of the Phase II model- it is the TMP model. It just hasn’t gotten its final detailing yet.

 

[KennyB]

Less griping...more renders...please!

ART in the Art Forum would be welcomed!

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

They are marketing CBS+ Trek to simpletons.

Your blind bias is tragic. I was 20 when TOS premiered in 1966 and have seen every episode of each series. I like all of the new Trek for the uniqueness each one brings. If you made that remark in the TNG forum, you would have earned a trolling warning.

 

[Michael]

So, since we've all said our piece … let's move on, again, and discuss @Warped9's creations. No need to constantly bring up the newer Trek shows or theorize over their intended target audience. Every post from here on out not about the topic at hand earns you a warning. Let's not go there. Thank you.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Your blind bias is tragic. I was 20 when TOS premiered in 1966 and have seen every episode of each series. I like all of the new Trek for the uniqueness each one brings. If you made that remark in the TNG forum, you would have earned a trolling warning.

You didn't read what Dukhat wrote, I agreed with him. I agree with Michael there's no need to constantly bring up new viewers or theorize as well. I'll try not to interject. My bad.

 

[Michael]

I meant what I said; let's just give all of this a rest and return to discussing Fan Art.

@STEPhon IT, you may make it sound like you're understanding and co-operative now, but the board staff has taken note that you've been warned before not to interject your feelings about the newer shows into every conversation and thus derail the respective thread. Let that be a final warning from my end: Don't bring it up unwarrantedly again or there will be a formal warning. Also, don't comment on this any further in this thread. Comments to PM, if you need any further explanation.

 

[somebuddyX]

Hey Warped9, are there any posts in here where you did concepts for what Earth or Starfleet Command might have looked like in TOS? Is that something you would do?

 

[Warped9]

Hey Warped9, are there any posts in here where you did concepts for what Earth or Starfleet Command might have looked like in TOS? Is that something you would do?

Given that none of the TOS episodes ever referenced Starfleet Command HQ in terms of something they passed over showing then, no. It was never something they ever even considered showing.