Unseen TOS....

[blssdwlf]

^^ Yes, I'm talking about the blue door. It appears I also lost the railings I put in the observation deck towers that hang out over the flight deck--so another thing to be redone.

Ah. It's hard to tell in your render but it looks like you have a blue door and a single gray door? In the episode there is a blue door, and two sets of gray doors and it is about thickness of the red marking on the floor.

I've searched everywhere including the trash. It's nowhere to be found. So this will be a step-by-step reconstruction from a given point. Mind you it will allow me to tweak a few things I wasn't completely happy with before.


I think part of the problem I'm beginning to run into is my computer is bumping into limitations in terms of processor. SketchUp itself is a single core program and maybe my i7 2600S 2.8GHz is struggling with very complex models such as this hangar with shuttlecraft (with interior). It can't be RAM of which I have 32GB. And I have plenty of storage (332GB of 500GB SSD avaialable).

I'm not sure, but I might have had this happen once before many years ago. It might be a case of a misplaced file, but I built a 3D model of the 1930's Flash Gordon rocketship, with full interior, and that model also seems to have disappeared.

Not sure if you're aware of this but sketchup has a recovery folder that might still have your file (replace username with yours). But it might not be there since you're updating it again.
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Temp\SKETCHUP

 

[Warped9]

OMG! I found the damned thing! And it was staring me in the face. It was saved as an autosave file I completely overlooked.

...The file I found was not quite the same one. But no matter because the only thing missing in this file was the addition of the lowered nacelle step plate. Tedious, but I can live with it given I've been saved so much do-over work.

 

[Warped9]

Part of me wants to be done with this hangar deck update so I can get back to what this project was originally about even though, technically, this hangar model falls under the idea of Unseen TOS. But we would never have seen this level of detail and expansivenesscin TOS even with a bit more time and money.

 

[Warped9]

I think part of the problem I'm beginning to run into is my computer is bumping into limitations in terms of processor. SketchUp itself is a single core program and maybe my i7 2600S 2.8GHz is struggling with very complex models such as this hangar with shuttlecraft (with interior). It can't be RAM of which I have 32GB. And I have plenty of storage (332GB of 500GB SSD available).

This is probably the year I finally upgrade from my mid 2011 21.5 iMac. About three years or so ago I upgraded my “Hacintosh” to its current specs. At the time it was far cheaper, a quarter of the price, to upgrade components than buy a new iMac spec’d the way I wanted it. The computer now runs better than new. But I can’t escape the OS issue I can no longer upgrade leaving me stuck at High Sierra. It hasn’t been an issue except recently my version of Safari can no longer access certain websites. That isn’t major because I can easily access those sites with my iPad if need be. But it won’t get any better.

Yes, I could play around with certain patches to allow me to run Mac OS Monterrey, but I’m not comfortable getting down into the software guts to do it. And twelve years out of a computer is pretty damn good considering most don’t make it near this far. Part of me would be intrigued to keep it going with additional tweaking, but another part of me is interested in having something new and more issue free.

I was very tempted to get the new iMac with Apple’s own new M1 silicon processor. But even with a processor vastly superior to my current one I’m on the fence whether 16GB RAM is sufficient while I currently have 32GB. It should be given my i7 2600S is 2.8 GHz while the M1 is 3.2 GHz, but I’m unsure about the RAM issue. While running SketchUp I’m not using anywhere near my RAM capacity and running Maxwell Render doesn’t seem to be either. But I’m not sure. And given I’m not desperate for a new computer I feel I can afford to wait.

Indications are strong that Apple will release an upgraded M3 iMac in the coming months by the end of the year. The signs are good this will be a significant upgrade over the M2, which they seem to be skipping for the iMac. A big point is that while the M1 was limited to 16GB of unified memory the M3 should offer at least 24 or 32GB memory—right where I want it.

An alternative I have been considering, and still am, is Apple’s Mac Studio. This is a beast of a machine that surpasses my needs. It would be priced about the same as a spec’d M1 or M3 iMac, but then I also have to buy a monitor, and one equivalent to the excellent stock 4.5k panel on the iMac aren’t cheap. The iMac also has a very nice built-in 6-speaker sound system whereas the Mac Studio hasn’t anything, so I would need speakers or a display with built-in speakers. So in the end a Mac Studio would cost me more. As such I’m more interested in the M3 iMac.

*Sigh* …decisions, decisions…

 

[Warped9]

This isn’t the same image I posted upthread. The lighting has been tweaked (made brighter) particularly inside the shuttlecraft. But the main thing is I changed the doorway on the flight deck side to make it look more like what we saw onscreen.

TOS could have had something like this with a bit more time and money. It would have been a matter of putting down some lines on the floor to suggest the turntable/elevator and compositing the shuttlecraft and floor with a matte painting of the flight deck.

It must be noted there is an inconsistency here. I spelled “hangar” correctly here, but onscreen it was incorrectly spelled “hanger.” I didn’t notice that immediately and unconsciously spelled it correctly. I’m not going to change it. It must be noted it is commonly misspelled. And on Matt Jefferies’ drawings it is usually spelled correctly, but periodically it is misspelled on some of his drawings. Also, if I’m not mistaken, it’s been spelled both ways onscreen.



At this point I think it’s time for me to move on from this and get back to the main subject matter of this thread. At some point I will return to this to better accurize the lobby doorway.


“The Return Of The Archons” – The century old lost starship Archon. Like the Columbia in “The Cage” and the Valiant in WNMHGB it isn’t really necessary to the story to know what the Archon looks like, but we’re curious.

“A Taste Of Armageddon” – The second lost starship Valiant (not the same one mentioned in WNMHGB).

“Errand Of Mercy” – A lesser class Klingon ship attacking the Enterprise. The Klingon D7 hasn’t been envisioned yet so what might this look like?

 

[FormerLurker]

The century old lost starship Valiant in WNMHGB

The second lost starship Valiant (not the same one mentioned in WNMHGB).

You KNOW they didn't use this name again until the 24th century because of these two. And then, of course, it happened AGAIN.

 

[MGagen]

Wow! A lovely shot that would have been wonderful to see in TOS. And you're right, it would be attainable. Maybe even with a physical painted backdrop...

M.

 

[BK613]

re: Sketchup.
This might or might not help.
I'm not sure if the Mac version of SU is the same, but the Windows version has a button in the Model Info dialog box to purge unused components, materials, etc. (SU doesn't always completely remove stuff when you change or delete things)
It's on the statistics page of that Model Info dialog

https://danieltal.com/sketchup-model-info-window/

 

[Warped9]

Wow! A lovely shot that would have been wonderful to see in TOS. And you're right, it would be attainable. Maybe even with a physical painted backdrop...

M.

One key difference, too, is TOS’ undersize exterior mockup wouldn’t have shown us an interior through the open access hatch, but thats a minor nitpick.

re: Sketchup.
This might or might not help.
I'm not sure if the Mac version of SU is the same, but the Windows version has a button in the Model Info dialog box to purge unused components, materials, etc. (SU doesn't always completely remove stuff when you change or delete things)
It's on the statistics page of that Model Info dialog

https://danieltal.com/sketchup-model-info-window/

Thamks! I will definitely check that out.

I do use Groups, but rarely use Components as often as I should. Layers is something I still need to get used to.


...Okay, I've checked and SketchUp for Mac does have a Model Info window, but when I try it won't open. So I'm presently stuck at what to do.

 

[Warped9]

I don’t mean to think ahead to Season 2 ahead if time, but I’ve been musing about the Horizon (“A Piece Of The Action”) which is supposedly from the same era as the Archon (“Return Of The Archons”).

In “A Piece Of The Action” Kirk mentions to Oxmyx “…the ship won’t land.” I find this a curious statement. If they know or suspect the Iotians are technologically primitive then why risk displaying “magic” technology to them, and in extent cultural contamination, and just transport down by shuttlecraft instead? Hence a ship that lands, something they know the Iotians would understand. To me this is a logic flaw. If they are monitoring Iotian communications—and they must be or else how was the Enterprise able to initiate communications?—they would already have had an idea of the Iotians’ level of technology. Blatantly displaying highly advanced “magical” technology to a technologically primitive society looks to be an overt violation of the Prime Directive.

Now on the other hand, and more pertinent to the subject of this project, Kirk’s remark is interesting in regard to the century old Horizon. Was he referring to the notion the old Horizon, unlike the Enterprise, could actually land on a planet surface? Or was alluding to the Horizon being relegated to using shuttlecraft exclusively to descend to the surface because transporters did not yet exist?

A starship that can actually land suggests a rather different approach to design than one that must remain in space.

Thoughts?

 

[blssdwlf]

In the episode Uhura says that the Iotians initiated voice communication with the Enterprise when approached the planet.

CHEKOV: Approaching Sigma Iotia Two, Captain.
KIRK: Standard orbit, Mister Chekov.
UHURA: Captain, I have received vocal contact from an official station. They relayed us to a man named Oxmyx. His title is Boss.​

Later we find out that in addition to the gangster book other books were left like,

KIRK: Did they leave any other books?
OXMYX: Sure. Some text books on how to make radio sets and stuff like that, but, look, I brought you here so you could help me, not for you to ask me questions. After that, I'll answer anything you want to know.​

Kirk's line about the Enterprise "won't land" would suggest that the Horizon landed on the planet and Kirk is choosing not to since he does not say "can't land".

 

[Warped9]

In the episode Uhura says that the Iotians initiated voice communication with the Enterprise when approached the planet.

Which begs the question: how did a primitive society know a starship was approaching their planet? And how did they know how to initiate communications with the Enterprise?

We’re not told what happened to the Horizon after it left Iotia, but what if the ship never actually left? Or some of the Horizon’s crew and//or equipment got left behind? The Iotians seemed perfectly comfortable with killing so maybe they had access to advanced tech left behind or taken from the Horizon.

 

[blssdwlf]

Which begs the question: how did a primitive society know a starship was approaching their planet? And how did they know how to initiate communications with the Enterprise?

We’re not told what happened to the Horizon after it left Iotia, but what if the ship never actually left? Or some of the Horizon’s crew and//or equipment got left behind? The Iotians seemed perfectly comfortable with killing so maybe they had access to advanced tech left behind or taken from the Horizon.

Seems pretty clear that the books left behind enabled the Iotians to detect and communicate with the Enterprise and build the guns and cars, etc.

KIRK: Did they leave any other books?
OXMYX: Sure. Some text books on how to make radio sets and stuff like that, but, look, I brought you here so you could help me, not for you to ask me questions. After that, I'll answer anything you want to know.
​

EDIT: If the ship never left we would see far more advanced tech like flying ships and spaceships. So the Horizon left, IMHO.

 

[Warped9]

I’m spitballing. There are things in that episode that don’t make sense to me. In the 1920s we didn’t have radar or other means of detecting distant objects. Our radio communications were primitive. So unless someone just happened to catch sight of the Enterprise with a telescope that just happened to be looking in the right spot how could they possibly have known the Enterprise was approaching their planet?

Unless other books the Horizon left behind covered more advanced tech than existed in the 1920s.

To be sure this is not a serious episode—it’s a light hearted romp. But looking at it within context of the Trek universe it does raise questions.

 

[blssdwlf]

I’m spitballing. There are things in that episode that don’t make sense to me. In the 1920s we didn’t have radar or other means of detecting distant objects. Our radio communications were primitive. So unless someone just happened to catch sight of the Enterprise with a telescope that just happened to be looking in the right spot how could they possibly have known the Enterprise was approaching their planet?

Unless other books the Horizon left behind covered more advanced tech than existed in the 1920s.

To be sure this is not a serious episode—it’s a light hearted romp. But looking at it within context of the Trek universe it does raise questions.

Interestingly, in the 1960s we didn't have orbiting nuclear missile platforms and in the 1990s spaceships with working cryogenic chambers. There is also the "telemobiloscope", an early device that was designed to detect metal ships in fog in 1904 so the concepts of radar was not unknown in the 1920s.

Or alternatively, the books could of had instructions to listen for a transponder frequency that starships broadcast on. When the Iotians picked up the Enterprise's transponder they knew to start broadcasting to establish contact.

 

[Warped9]

Interestingly, in the 1960s we didn't have orbiting nuclear missile platforms and in the 1990s spaceships with working cryogenic chambers. There is also the "telemobiloscope", an early device that was designed to detect metal ships in fog in 1904 so the concepts of radar was not unknown in the 1920s.

Or alternatively, the books could of had instructions to listen for a transponder frequency that starships broadcast on. When the Iotians picked up the Enterprise's transponder they knew to start broadcasting to establish contact.

Your latter point is plausible. That’s in line with what I suggested of tech that wasn’t strictly 1920s.

 

[Warped9]

I’m already thinking that the Horizon might not look like the Archon.

In “Return Of The Archons” Reger said Landru “…pulled the Archons down from the sky.” And concurrently the Enterprise was under attack by Landru. That suggests the Archon was a ship relegated strictly to operating in space, although it doesn’t totally preclude it from being able to land. It depends on how you interpret Reger’s words. It’s possible Landru brought the ship down when it attempted to lift off the planet surface and head into space.

 

[FormerLurker]

could of

I haven't said this in quite a while, but "Could HAVE!" "Could HAVE!" AAARRGGHHH!

Sorry. Now we return to our original programming.

 

[BK613]

...Okay, I've checked and SketchUp for Mac dows have a Model Info window, but when I try it won't open. So I'm presently stuck at what to do.

I apologize. I'm not sure either since I'm not a Mac user. A cursory look via Google had some peeps saying it opened offscreen (ie, its location coords were beyond the screen edge) or it was hidden behind some other element on the screen.

In the episode Uhura says that the Iotians initiated voice communication with the Enterprise when approached the planet.

CHEKOV: Approaching Sigma Iotia Two, Captain.
KIRK: Standard orbit, Mister Chekov.
UHURA: Captain, I have received vocal contact from an official station. They relayed us to a man named Oxmyx. His title is Boss.

Or the Enterprise initiated contact, hailing them on frequencies detected on approach* and Uhura is reporting that she received what she thinks is an official response to those hails.
It's also possible that iotians, having been contacted by aliens once, had a listening station pointed at space for when they came back.

*(consistent with what we see in other episodes, like Bread and Circuses, where various comms are being monitored on approach)

 

[Warped9]

I apologize. I'm not sure either since I'm not a Mac user. A cursory look via Google had some peeps saying it opened offscreen (ie, its location coords were beyond the screen edge) or it was hidden behind some other element on the screen.

No apologies needed. I Googled the same thing and got the same answer. But for the life me I can’t see where it’s opening.

I’m wondering if my version of SketchUp is too old and maybe getting buggy. I could update it, but then I’m also likely to get a new Mac by the end of the year when I’ll get SketchUp Pro 2023 with is optimized for Apple’s M series processors.