Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[Kestra]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

So I've been thinking about this a bit (which is probably a waste of time) and there's one major thing that bugs me about some of the comments here. People equating "this is what I'd want/what I'm comfortable with" to "this is what's right/this is what should be".

In case it hasn't been obvious, I'm for abortion. I don't think of it as killing a person, but even if you want to call it that, I'm fine with it. I think it's perfectly acceptable within the standards we currently have. There are a lot of hazy lines that I don't want to go into, but abortion is legal and should stay legal.

Don't confuse this with me saying that I would want an abortion or have gotten one in the past. I am currently married and would welcome a child.

I started having sex when I was a teenager. I realized, after a lot of consideration, that if I got pregnant I would probably not be able to go through with an abortion. A pregnancy would have devastated my life, but that's the choice I would have made.

Choice. That's what it's about. I would not want an abortion personally, but I am adamant that every woman should be able to make that choice for herself. My personal feelings and history should have no bearing on this, and neither should yours.

 

[Shanndee]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Thank you Kestra, that sums it up nicely.

There are a lot of women who have plans for their lives that will make them happy and fulfilled. If those plans do not include a child it is their choice. If it does include a child, that is also their choice.

Every individual gets to choose the path that will lead to their own personally rewarding life, and a responsible individual who's entire life course will be derailed with an unwanted pregnancy has the right to choose to terminate said pregnancy.

I like how you put it, "My personal feelings and history should have no bearing on this, and neither should yours". Well said.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Agreed. Well said, Kestra.

 

[nightwind1]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

Brain and brain what is brain? Remember, brain-dead individuals are persons too, with full rights and privileges. One wonders how many of them vote in elections, too.

In the U.S. they're a pretty substantial portion of the Republican electorate.

Fixed it for ya...

 

[nightwind1]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

That doesn't even make sense.

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

The ramen I had for lunch didn't sit well with me.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

That doesn't even make sense.

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

The ramen I had for lunch didn't sit well with me.

What about all the spontaneous abortions and miscarriages that happen to pregnant women all over the planet? If I'm not mistaken, and someone can pull the stats on this if they have them handy, but aren't roughly half of all known pregnancies terminated by the body itself because of what it detects as genetic anomalies and issues with the newly fertilized zygote or even embryo? And those are just the ones that the mothers actually have some knowledge of thanks to pregnancy tests.

There are far, far too many miscarriages and failed pregnancies for it to be just random, dumb and unfortunate luck. Seems to me that Mother Nature is clearly at work making a determination about which collection of genes is most fit to continue living. The way I see it, the female reproductive system is just as ruthless with its own self as your average abortion services provider if not moreso. Do we condemn and attack the uterus itself now because it purges itself of what it doesn't want?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I had an early stage miscarriage (at about 6 to 8 weeks) before I had even had my pregnancy confirmed. This was before over-the-counter pregnancy tests were available. I thought I might be pregnant as I was getting some symptoms.

I do not feel like I lost a baby. In fact I gave birth to a child about 11 months later. Hewould never had been born if I hadn't had the miscarriage.

 

[Marc]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

The ramen I had for lunch didn't sit well with me.

What about all the spontaneous abortions and miscarriages that happen to pregnant women all over the planet? If I'm not mistaken, and someone can pull the stats on this if they have them handy, but aren't roughly half of all known pregnancies terminated by the body itself because of what it detects as genetic anomalies and issues with the newly fertilized zygote or even embryo? And those are just the ones that the mothers actually have some knowledge of thanks to pregnancy tests.

There are far, far too many miscarriages and failed pregnancies for it to be just random, dumb and unfortunate luck. Seems to me that Mother Nature is clearly at work making a determination about which collection of genes is most fit to continue living. The way I see it, the female reproductive system is just as ruthless with its own self as your average abortion services provider if not moreso. Do we condemn and attack the uterus itself now because it purges itself of what it doesn't want?

I believe the miscarriage rate is around 25%.


There was a letter by obgyn published in Australia a few years back claiming the.abortion figures were inflated they simply went by the number of currettes performed. Problen is the same procedure is also used after a woman has miscarried.

But a least there wasn't the gross invasion of medical privacy that Republicans keep pushing for.

 

[wissaboo]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

The ramen I had for lunch didn't sit well with me.

What about all the spontaneous abortions and miscarriages that happen to pregnant women all over the planet? If I'm not mistaken, and someone can pull the stats on this if they have them handy, but aren't roughly half of all known pregnancies terminated by the body itself because of what it detects as genetic anomalies and issues with the newly fertilized zygote or even embryo? And those are just the ones that the mothers actually have some knowledge of thanks to pregnancy tests.

There are far, far too many miscarriages and failed pregnancies for it to be just random, dumb and unfortunate luck. Seems to me that Mother Nature is clearly at work making a determination about which collection of genes is most fit to continue living. The way I see it, the female reproductive system is just as ruthless with its own self as your average abortion services provider if not moreso. Do we condemn and attack the uterus itself now because it purges itself of what it doesn't want?

I believe the miscarriage rate is around 25%.


There was a letter by obgyn published in Australia a few years back claiming the.abortion figures were inflated they simply went by the number of currettes performed. Problen is the same procedure is also used after a woman has miscarried.

But a least there wasn't the gross invasion of medical privacy that Republicans keep pushing for.

when I was having miscarriages the doctors told me 40% of pregnancies are miscarried. Most before the woman knows she is pregnant. Of course, we can tell earlier and earlier when we are pregnant so I suspect that more people are aware of it.

 

[The Lady Eve]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Choice. That's what it's about. I would not want an abortion personally, but I am adamant that every woman should be able to make that choice for herself. My personal feelings and history should have no bearing on this, and neither should yours.

Exactly. Fine post.

 

[sonak]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

That doesn't even make sense.

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

The ramen I had for lunch didn't sit well with me.

if ramen gives you an upset stomach, your stomach must be about as tough as tissue paper.

 

[Captain_Nick]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Discuss.

If the woman concerned knows how to contact you after the event, you've stuffed up badly.

Fathering many children and paying for none of them - man's ultimate win state

 

[Captain_Nick]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Holy crap that's thirty five pages I didn't read through

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Discuss.

If the woman concerned knows how to contact you after the event, you've stuffed up badly.

Fathering many children and paying for none of them - man's ultimate win state

And woman's if she managed to divest herself of such a loser.

 

[Kestra]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Thank you Kestra, that sums it up nicely.

Agreed. Well said, Kestra.

Exactly. Fine post.

Thanks guys.

 

[RevdKathy]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Pity you couldn't have been the second poster, Kestra. Your wisdom might have saved us 35 pages of grief, trolling, irrelevence etc.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

That doesn't even make sense.

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

This argument is too arbitrary as you could use it against contraception.
See, I think we can talk about the second trimester, about whether a fetus should considered as a separate entity which has rights. In my own country the limit is 14 weeks and I think it is a good idea to limit ordinary (i.e. there is no medical or criminal reason for it) abortions to the embryonic stage. No matter what your opinion on when human life starts is, the early the better.
In the US the debate seems to be radicalized, featuring folks who view a bunch of cells after contraception as a human being on the one side and folks who view a fetus as having no rights at all.

 

[datagal]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Thank you Kestra, that sums it up nicely.

Agreed. Well said, Kestra.

Exactly. Fine post.

Thanks guys.

I agree with them, Kestra. That was a very good post and straight to the point.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I was wondering whether abortion would be an argument at all if the grandparents (either paternal or maternal) were awarded custody of a child as soon, or soon after, the child was born and the grandparents applied for child support from both of the child's parents? The 'she could have had an abortion" couldn't really be applied in such a situation and it is a lot easier to see that such support is indeed a 'child's rights' issue not a 'woman's rights" issue.

 

[Shanndee]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I'm not sure that it would make any difference at all. If a man does not feel he should pay child support, it won't matter if the money is going into the grandparents instead of the mother.

It also does not take into account the fact that many women simply do not want to have a child at all. I don't think that an in-family guardian would change that fact.

There are also a lot of grandparents who love their grandchildren dearly, but wouldn't want to raise them. They have raised their children already...this is their time to reconnect with each other and do the things that they delayed while they raised their families (travel, etc.).